6 ms·

Giving psychotic medications to children feels like a very dangerous experiment, kinda like climate change. I'm not that old, but in my educational period I've

Giving psychotic medications to children feels like a very dangerous experiment, kinda like climate change. I'm not that old, but in my educational period I've never seen or experience anyone who would be ADHD or for whom one would that they need to take some medication. That being said, I come from a farm/vineyard and I've lived most of my life in a village, so my perception is certainly skewed. But I do know that you can't force a kid to do what they don't want to. I never liked vegetables so whenever we had a vegetable soup I didn't eat it, which made my mother angry. Her solution was, that I'm not allowed to leave the table until I eat everything that's on my plate. That gives you two options, either eat the food and be done with it... Or just sit there until the evening and then go to bed. What I'm trying to say is, if a child is full of energy, go outside with them and let them run around, don't give them medication to suppress that energy. I'm not certain what it's called but, it's better to prevent then to cure. It's better to prevent getting cancer then to cure cancer. Or in other words, would you rather prevent getting cancer or get cancer and then cure it?

SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
My understanding is that ADHD and it’s medication is actually one of, if not the most, well supported/researched relationships in psychiatry and neurological medicine. It’s also not at all what is being described here; it’s actually a neurodevelopmental disorder, not “full of energy”. The medication doesn’t suppress energy; the medications are actually amphetamines! If it wasn’t being used to an ADHD brain, they’d be considered recreational stimulants.
- LoveMortuus 5y ago
  Has ADHD been prevalent throughout the history and have I've just been blind or is it a new-ish development (in the past ~100 years)?
  - SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
    I don’t know if ADHD has been diagnosed throughout history, but it seems to exist in a similar prevalence internationally regardless of culture, so my suspicion is that because the study of the human brain and behavior is pretty new then neurodevelopmental disorders diagnosis and discovery would be pretty new. It would be like dismissing germ theory because the prevalence of germ theory is about as new as ADHD.
    - zqna 5y ago
      Well, not true. It's very much a disease that was invented in US, and which is propelled by multibillion pharma-business: https://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/health/the-selling-of-attention-deficit-disorder.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/health/the-selling-of-att...
      - inter_netuser 5y ago
        you are doing a great disservice to millions who suffer from a very real condition. Go to a local support group and tell people on disability their problems were invented by multibillion pharma business.
        bobthechef 5y ago
        zqna 5y ago
        They are suffering there where being different and not participating in a rat race is considered as the problem. Here, tell this to my support group.
        inter_netuser 5y ago
        everyone is different from one another. so you differentiate yourself by being different others...? seems very circular. You are absolutely free to drop out of the "rat race", aka the evolutionary process, which admittedly can be quite stressful. Just have to accept the consequences first, every choice comes with trade offs. The diatribes against well established condition as some sort of a pharma conspiracy is just the defence mechanism to avoid facing the disability. Not an uncommon strategy, but probably not very productive. ADHD is most effectively treated with basic 100 year old generic drugs, as well many thousand old remedies like nicotine. What's next, common cold is the aspirin lobby conspiracy? Guess what, some people manage to live happy lives, have happy families and success in business (that you call rat race) despite being fully paralyzed waist-down, and some even with limbs severed. I know some of those personally. I also know others, that chose instead to do nothing but complain. I'm sure you can guess the outcomes easily. Best of luck in the new year.
  - zqna 5y ago
    ADHD is epidemic in the rich countries that are obsessed with a so-called "success". Especially in the country where getting sick makes somebody else rich. https://adhd-institute.com/burden-of-adhd/epidemiology/ https://adhd-institute.com/burden-of-adhd/epidemiology/
  - inter_netuser 5y ago
    do you think infections, traumatic brain injury, vitamin deficiencies, and the myriad of other reasons that can impair your cognitive function been prevalent throughout the history? That's all ADHD is, an umbrella term for impaired executive cognitive functions. ADHD can very often be due to undiagnosed conditions, or comorbidities that aggravate it. To put in perspective: there are billions walking around with undiagnosed hypertension, which is trivial to diagnose and treat. When was the last time you took your blood pressure?
  - watwut 5y ago
    There were kids who were seen as "bad" from young age and often beaten. Not doing tasks they were told to, playing instead, being lazy (meaning not doing what they were told to), misbehaving. So, they have beaten them or accused parents of spoiling them. It was not particularly rare. The young delinquency was a thing too. Kinda hard to say how many of them were adhd, but it is quite likely some were.
nyanpasu64 5y ago
Forcing children to eat unpleasant foods or go hungry is abuse: https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/rs6oy0/realising_a_childhood_punishment_was_fucked_up/hqkieq6/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/rs6oy0/realising_a_c... > I wasn’t able to leave table a few times. One in particular- I used my absent father’s pepper mill and put too much in my mashed potatoes. It burned my mouth and they wouldn’t let me leave until I ate it all. Which I couldn’t do. Crying. Furious. Humiliated. Trapped. > It got late and I started to fall asleep at table. I was greeted with the potatoes as breakfast. Then when I opened my lunchbox at school- there they were. At least I could throw them away. That was the day my anorexia began. There were incidents after where I didn’t eat enough, where I took too much and wasted it- stuck at table in a power struggle I did not understand nor could I win. > My Mom did thuis with with my brother. If food is left out overnight, it is a trigger for him. He sees the food, and immediately thinks he has to eat it. I was forced to eat foods that made me sick, or I just didn't like. So, I would eat while dry heaving, and throwing back up into my mouth. I didn't dare not eat after seeing what my brother went through. That was the start of my eating disorder. I'm completely disconnected from my fullness/hunger cues. To eat mindfully is incredibly difficult because my brain is so used to dissociating while eating. My ED is binge eating because I used to eat a lot of anything I liked to get me through eating small amounts of anything I didn't like. I over-salt everything because I used to use salt to cover the taste of things, and need everything overcooked because my mom would undercook meat.
xyzzy_plugh 5y ago
> I've never seen or experience anyone who would be ADHD or for whom one would that they need to take some medication. You must then accept that you are ignorant. By comparison, I have seen and experienced children and adults who, without medication, would be unable to live remotely functional lives. > What I'm trying to say is, if a child is full of energy, go outside with them and let them run around, don't give them medication to suppress that energy. You demonstrate a lack of understanding of ADHD, so I would recommend further research before commenting in the future. It used to be a common misconception that ADD/ADHD was just being full of energy, but that's not remotely accurate. Briefly, there are two dominant classifications: primarily inattentive and primarily impulsive (or hyperactive). There is also a combined impulsive/inattentive. I am inattentive. Among my numerous issues likely related to ADHD, I have trouble falling asleep and waking, I will stay up far too late reading. I make bad decisions when unmedicated, and I am unable to effectively wield the concept of time. Letting me run around as a child would accomplish nothing. > I'm not certain what it's called but, it's better to prevent then to cure. It's better to prevent getting cancer then to cure cancer. Or in other words, would you rather prevent getting cancer or get cancer and then cure it? Sure? But you're now assuming that ADHD is environmental, which I don't believe to be the modern understanding. It's likely hereditary. In any case, I found your comment quite disheartening.
- kinjba11 5y ago
  ADHD is a real condition absolutely. However, the symptoms seen all over the board as layman. Which is concerning. How often is ADHD misdiagnosed as a result? If it is hereditary, have we found the gene(s) which would enable us to pinpoint the diagnosis, possibly even before birth? I also have trouble falling asleep and have made bad decisions in the past. I have effective strategies to mitigate. Do I actually have ADHD and need to take amphetamines? I am not saying this of you, but I find it disheartening when people say "it is just my genes, nothing I can do about it". It's fatalistic and a self-fulfilling prophecy. If there actually are unknown environmental factors, that attitude seems to be ignoring them outright. For instance, exposure to large doses of lead as a child might instead be incorrectly diagnosed and interpreted as "just my genes I guess". There are so many poorly understood chemicals swimming around our water supplies, food systems, cosmetics, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if we're taking drugs to bandaid something much deeper to blame.

SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago

My understanding is that ADHD and it’s medication is actually one of, if not the most, well supported/researched relationships in psychiatry and neurological medicine. It’s also not at all what is being described here; it’s actually a neurodevelopmental disorder, not “full of energy”. The medication doesn’t suppress energy; the medications are actually amphetamines! If it wasn’t being used to an ADHD brain, they’d be considered recreational stimulants.

LoveMortuus 5y ago
Has ADHD been prevalent throughout the history and have I've just been blind or is it a new-ish development (in the past ~100 years)?
- SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
  I don’t know if ADHD has been diagnosed throughout history, but it seems to exist in a similar prevalence internationally regardless of culture, so my suspicion is that because the study of the human brain and behavior is pretty new then neurodevelopmental disorders diagnosis and discovery would be pretty new. It would be like dismissing germ theory because the prevalence of germ theory is about as new as ADHD.
  - zqna 5y ago
    Well, not true. It's very much a disease that was invented in US, and which is propelled by multibillion pharma-business: https://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/health/the-selling-of-attention-deficit-disorder.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/health/the-selling-of-att...
    - inter_netuser 5y ago
      you are doing a great disservice to millions who suffer from a very real condition. Go to a local support group and tell people on disability their problems were invented by multibillion pharma business.
      - bobthechef 5y ago
      - zqna 5y ago
        They are suffering there where being different and not participating in a rat race is considered as the problem. Here, tell this to my support group.
        inter_netuser 5y ago
        everyone is different from one another. so you differentiate yourself by being different others...? seems very circular. You are absolutely free to drop out of the "rat race", aka the evolutionary process, which admittedly can be quite stressful. Just have to accept the consequences first, every choice comes with trade offs. The diatribes against well established condition as some sort of a pharma conspiracy is just the defence mechanism to avoid facing the disability. Not an uncommon strategy, but probably not very productive. ADHD is most effectively treated with basic 100 year old generic drugs, as well many thousand old remedies like nicotine. What's next, common cold is the aspirin lobby conspiracy? Guess what, some people manage to live happy lives, have happy families and success in business (that you call rat race) despite being fully paralyzed waist-down, and some even with limbs severed. I know some of those personally. I also know others, that chose instead to do nothing but complain. I'm sure you can guess the outcomes easily. Best of luck in the new year.
- zqna 5y ago
  ADHD is epidemic in the rich countries that are obsessed with a so-called "success". Especially in the country where getting sick makes somebody else rich. https://adhd-institute.com/burden-of-adhd/epidemiology/ https://adhd-institute.com/burden-of-adhd/epidemiology/
- inter_netuser 5y ago
  do you think infections, traumatic brain injury, vitamin deficiencies, and the myriad of other reasons that can impair your cognitive function been prevalent throughout the history? That's all ADHD is, an umbrella term for impaired executive cognitive functions. ADHD can very often be due to undiagnosed conditions, or comorbidities that aggravate it. To put in perspective: there are billions walking around with undiagnosed hypertension, which is trivial to diagnose and treat. When was the last time you took your blood pressure?
- watwut 5y ago
  There were kids who were seen as "bad" from young age and often beaten. Not doing tasks they were told to, playing instead, being lazy (meaning not doing what they were told to), misbehaving. So, they have beaten them or accused parents of spoiling them. It was not particularly rare. The young delinquency was a thing too. Kinda hard to say how many of them were adhd, but it is quite likely some were.

nyanpasu64 5y ago

Forcing children to eat unpleasant foods or go hungry is abuse: https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/rs6oy0/realising_a_childhood_punishment_was_fucked_up/hqkieq6/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/rs6oy0/realising_a_c... > I wasn’t able to leave table a few times. One in particular- I used my absent father’s pepper mill and put too much in my mashed potatoes. It burned my mouth and they wouldn’t let me leave until I ate it all. Which I couldn’t do. Crying. Furious. Humiliated. Trapped. > It got late and I started to fall asleep at table. I was greeted with the potatoes as breakfast. Then when I opened my lunchbox at school- there they were. At least I could throw them away. That was the day my anorexia began. There were incidents after where I didn’t eat enough, where I took too much and wasted it- stuck at table in a power struggle I did not understand nor could I win. > My Mom did thuis with with my brother. If food is left out overnight, it is a trigger for him. He sees the food, and immediately thinks he has to eat it. I was forced to eat foods that made me sick, or I just didn't like. So, I would eat while dry heaving, and throwing back up into my mouth. I didn't dare not eat after seeing what my brother went through. That was the start of my eating disorder. I'm completely disconnected from my fullness/hunger cues. To eat mindfully is incredibly difficult because my brain is so used to dissociating while eating. My ED is binge eating because I used to eat a lot of anything I liked to get me through eating small amounts of anything I didn't like. I over-salt everything because I used to use salt to cover the taste of things, and need everything overcooked because my mom would undercook meat.

xyzzy_plugh 5y ago

> I've never seen or experience anyone who would be ADHD or for whom one would that they need to take some medication. You must then accept that you are ignorant. By comparison, I have seen and experienced children and adults who, without medication, would be unable to live remotely functional lives. > What I'm trying to say is, if a child is full of energy, go outside with them and let them run around, don't give them medication to suppress that energy. You demonstrate a lack of understanding of ADHD, so I would recommend further research before commenting in the future. It used to be a common misconception that ADD/ADHD was just being full of energy, but that's not remotely accurate. Briefly, there are two dominant classifications: primarily inattentive and primarily impulsive (or hyperactive). There is also a combined impulsive/inattentive. I am inattentive. Among my numerous issues likely related to ADHD, I have trouble falling asleep and waking, I will stay up far too late reading. I make bad decisions when unmedicated, and I am unable to effectively wield the concept of time. Letting me run around as a child would accomplish nothing. > I'm not certain what it's called but, it's better to prevent then to cure. It's better to prevent getting cancer then to cure cancer. Or in other words, would you rather prevent getting cancer or get cancer and then cure it? Sure? But you're now assuming that ADHD is environmental, which I don't believe to be the modern understanding. It's likely hereditary. In any case, I found your comment quite disheartening.

kinjba11 5y ago
ADHD is a real condition absolutely. However, the symptoms seen all over the board as layman. Which is concerning. How often is ADHD misdiagnosed as a result? If it is hereditary, have we found the gene(s) which would enable us to pinpoint the diagnosis, possibly even before birth? I also have trouble falling asleep and have made bad decisions in the past. I have effective strategies to mitigate. Do I actually have ADHD and need to take amphetamines? I am not saying this of you, but I find it disheartening when people say "it is just my genes, nothing I can do about it". It's fatalistic and a self-fulfilling prophecy. If there actually are unknown environmental factors, that attitude seems to be ignoring them outright. For instance, exposure to large doses of lead as a child might instead be incorrectly diagnosed and interpreted as "just my genes I guess". There are so many poorly understood chemicals swimming around our water supplies, food systems, cosmetics, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if we're taking drugs to bandaid something much deeper to blame.