5 ms·

As a small company who spends $70-80k per year on Google's official Translate API, it's disappointing if Google allows this type of abuse to continue. If they

by cj 5y ago

As a small company who spends $70-80k per year on Google's official Translate API, it's disappointing if Google allows this type of abuse to continue. If they don't want to pay, they should be using a free open source alternative like https://github.com/LibreTranslate/LibreTranslate https://github.com/LibreTranslate/LibreTranslate

charcircuit 5y ago
Not everyone can afford to use these APIs or are able to get permission to use the external APIs. The internal APIs are very good for people who don't mind taking the risk of using a potentially unstable API.
- HatchedLake721 5y ago
  Then don’t run a business with services you can’t afford?
  - charcircuit 5y ago
    But using internal APIs are free. I can afford to use them since I don't mind having to update my usage of them / work around rate limiting.
    - IX-103 5y ago
      Do you also only eat free samples from the grocery store?
      - jokethrowaway 5y ago
        Those are usually rate limited. I'd recommend pizza and beer at tech events instead (albeit the nutritional content of your diet could be more important than free food).
      - Const-me 5y ago
        Which part of https://translate.google.com/ https://translate.google.com/ web page says the service provided by the page is a free sample of commercially available API?
        yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
        The ToS, I expect
        Const-me 5y ago
        I’ve looked for 5 minutes there, and found nothing relevant. They don’t even have additional specific TOS for their translate service, the only link from https://policies.google.com/terms/service-specific?hl=en-US https://policies.google.com/terms/service-specific?hl=en-US under “Translate” section points back to their common TOS at https://policies.google.com/terms?hl=en-US https://policies.google.com/terms?hl=en-US Even if they would have TOS for translate, pretty sure that’s unenforceable. Not unless hiding that page behind a paywall, or requiring a google account. Merely visiting a publicly available web page doesn’t create contractual relationship between end user and web server owner.
        dandiep 5y ago
        I've spent some time looking into this and found very little. The closest I could get is that if you are a Google Cloud customer, it forbids you from reverse engineering other Google APIs that are not documented as supported, which would probably include this use case. No idea if they're a Google Cloud customer though.
        Const-me 5y ago
        > No idea if they're a Google Cloud customer though. Even if they are, I have doubts that’s enforceable either. One doesn’t need to reverse engineer an API to consume that API, and it’s hard to find out who did the reverse engineering. The reverse engineering might be accomplished by someone else who’s not a Google’s Cloud customer, like an unrelated person answering a question on stackoverflow.com.
  - alisonkisk 5y ago
kukabynd 5y ago
Definitely would love to learn more about your use case. Recently I started to use DeepL and it’s great if the language selection is enough for you.
- johnisgood 5y ago
  Personally I have found DeepL to be more accurate in the languages they support than Google Translate. They used to support much less, but for the languages it did, it was pretty great. It supports way more now though!
  - billygoat 5y ago
    Still no Turkish on DeepL, even though it is one of the most widely spoken languages across much of Europe and uses the Latin alphabet. Yet tiny European languages like Latvian are supported, as are very difficult translation targets such as Estonian and Hungarian. My hopes are dashed every time they add another tiny European language and Turkish remains off the table. :-(
    - johnisgood 5y ago
      I am unsure if the support for those languages are better vs. Google Translate, but the small set of languages it used to support a year ago or something is definitely better. I remember French and Spanish being way better. DeepL's Polish is not that great, that I can say for certain! Not sure if better than Google Translate's though.
      - Xorlev 5y ago
        Qualitatively better, or quantitatively? If the latter, do you have some metrics you can share?
        johnisgood 5y ago
        Qualitatively. > do you have some metrics you can share? Not really. Try to have discussions using DeepL and Google Translate. Ask native speakers which one was more accurate and whatnot. I do not know French, but DeepL allowed me to speak to someone using the language, and apparently at some point some people thought I was a native speaker!
iqanq 5y ago
- cj 5y ago
  > You mean that you are disappointed that you did not come up with this on your own I’ve been aware of this loophole for years, it’s nothing new and is widely known. I just chose to build our business using legitimate above-board APIs and services, as should Telegram.
  - jokethrowaway 5y ago
    If it's public and available and Telegram didn't sign a contract or EULA which forbids using this endpoint, it's legitimate. The cons is that Google can break the endpoint at any time. That said, I wrote a similar hack for a Wordpress plugin 10 years ago which automatically generated articles in multiple languages (think SEO farming). I just looked at what their frontend app was calling and used it. I run a business which needs to run programmatically searches on different search engines and using official APIs is out of the question. I didn't even check what their API offering is. The only search engine that seriously try to prevents scraper is Yandex which asks for a lot of captchas but I've built a system to allow humans to just process captchas and give back to the code the result.
    - serioussecurity 5y ago
      This definitely violates the terms of service, if that's what you're asking.
      - iqanq 5y ago
        They never agreed to the ToS, so they can't have violated them.
        digitaLandscape 5y ago
alisonkisk 5y ago
grandpoobah 5y ago
Crabs in a bucket.

by cj 5y ago

charcircuit 5y ago

Not everyone can afford to use these APIs or are able to get permission to use the external APIs. The internal APIs are very good for people who don't mind taking the risk of using a potentially unstable API.

HatchedLake721 5y ago
Then don’t run a business with services you can’t afford?
- charcircuit 5y ago
  But using internal APIs are free. I can afford to use them since I don't mind having to update my usage of them / work around rate limiting.
  - IX-103 5y ago
    Do you also only eat free samples from the grocery store?
    - jokethrowaway 5y ago
      Those are usually rate limited. I'd recommend pizza and beer at tech events instead (albeit the nutritional content of your diet could be more important than free food).
    - Const-me 5y ago
      Which part of https://translate.google.com/ https://translate.google.com/ web page says the service provided by the page is a free sample of commercially available API?
      - yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
        The ToS, I expect
        Const-me 5y ago
        I’ve looked for 5 minutes there, and found nothing relevant. They don’t even have additional specific TOS for their translate service, the only link from https://policies.google.com/terms/service-specific?hl=en-US https://policies.google.com/terms/service-specific?hl=en-US under “Translate” section points back to their common TOS at https://policies.google.com/terms?hl=en-US https://policies.google.com/terms?hl=en-US Even if they would have TOS for translate, pretty sure that’s unenforceable. Not unless hiding that page behind a paywall, or requiring a google account. Merely visiting a publicly available web page doesn’t create contractual relationship between end user and web server owner.
        dandiep 5y ago
        I've spent some time looking into this and found very little. The closest I could get is that if you are a Google Cloud customer, it forbids you from reverse engineering other Google APIs that are not documented as supported, which would probably include this use case. No idea if they're a Google Cloud customer though.
        Const-me 5y ago
        > No idea if they're a Google Cloud customer though. Even if they are, I have doubts that’s enforceable either. One doesn’t need to reverse engineer an API to consume that API, and it’s hard to find out who did the reverse engineering. The reverse engineering might be accomplished by someone else who’s not a Google’s Cloud customer, like an unrelated person answering a question on stackoverflow.com.
- alisonkisk 5y ago

kukabynd 5y ago

Definitely would love to learn more about your use case. Recently I started to use DeepL and it’s great if the language selection is enough for you.

johnisgood 5y ago
Personally I have found DeepL to be more accurate in the languages they support than Google Translate. They used to support much less, but for the languages it did, it was pretty great. It supports way more now though!
- billygoat 5y ago
  Still no Turkish on DeepL, even though it is one of the most widely spoken languages across much of Europe and uses the Latin alphabet. Yet tiny European languages like Latvian are supported, as are very difficult translation targets such as Estonian and Hungarian. My hopes are dashed every time they add another tiny European language and Turkish remains off the table. :-(
  - johnisgood 5y ago
    I am unsure if the support for those languages are better vs. Google Translate, but the small set of languages it used to support a year ago or something is definitely better. I remember French and Spanish being way better. DeepL's Polish is not that great, that I can say for certain! Not sure if better than Google Translate's though.
    - Xorlev 5y ago
      Qualitatively better, or quantitatively? If the latter, do you have some metrics you can share?
      - johnisgood 5y ago
        Qualitatively. > do you have some metrics you can share? Not really. Try to have discussions using DeepL and Google Translate. Ask native speakers which one was more accurate and whatnot. I do not know French, but DeepL allowed me to speak to someone using the language, and apparently at some point some people thought I was a native speaker!

iqanq 5y ago

cj 5y ago
> You mean that you are disappointed that you did not come up with this on your own I’ve been aware of this loophole for years, it’s nothing new and is widely known. I just chose to build our business using legitimate above-board APIs and services, as should Telegram.
- jokethrowaway 5y ago
  If it's public and available and Telegram didn't sign a contract or EULA which forbids using this endpoint, it's legitimate. The cons is that Google can break the endpoint at any time. That said, I wrote a similar hack for a Wordpress plugin 10 years ago which automatically generated articles in multiple languages (think SEO farming). I just looked at what their frontend app was calling and used it. I run a business which needs to run programmatically searches on different search engines and using official APIs is out of the question. I didn't even check what their API offering is. The only search engine that seriously try to prevents scraper is Yandex which asks for a lot of captchas but I've built a system to allow humans to just process captchas and give back to the code the result.
  - serioussecurity 5y ago
    This definitely violates the terms of service, if that's what you're asking.
    - iqanq 5y ago
      They never agreed to the ToS, so they can't have violated them.
      - digitaLandscape 5y ago

alisonkisk 5y ago

grandpoobah 5y ago

Crabs in a bucket.