4 ms·

on top of that decentralized part is already the web itself is pretty much it

by qaq 5y ago

whywhywhywhy 5y ago
No. If you read up on how the web works at its base, it’s highly centralized. If you look how people interact with the web, it’s highly centralized to a handful of apps by a handful of companies.
- almost 5y ago
  People choose to do that because it’s convenient. There’s nothing in any of the nebulous ideas around “web3” that would change that. You can use a federated social network RIGHT NOW. Or you can just make your own website TODAY. No permission needed, you get complete ownership. It’s the amazing decentralised dream that was (and is) the internet. Only thing it won’t do is potentially make you rich (at the expense of others) just for getting in (and out!) at the right time.
  - qorrect 5y ago
    Very good points. I can't see Joe the Plumber using or caring about web3 if it requires any more effort then the current internet ( which is arguably already decentralized ... )
  - jimmydorry 5y ago
    - You need permission from the central root certifying authorities (aka. getting a domain) for people to be able to find your site. - You need to remain out of the shitlist of a handful of “spam and anti-evil” authorities (getting on a list means your site gets blocked by all the big browsers and can be permanent or take a long time to resolve) - You need permission to host your content from the: hardware / cloud provider, the datacentre if you self-host, and / or intermediary ISPs for peering (if no-one will peer, your site may as well not exists) There are some other parties you need permission or blessing from that don’t come immediately to mind.
    - almost 5y ago
      Freenet and Tor have existed for a while and are solutions to these problems for those that need them. You’re not interested in that though are you? No coins so no option for speculation. Web3 as it currently stands (as I said before it’s a slippery weasel word so no don’t you’ll change it to suite) also needs all that stuff. Most “web3” apps are served via Cloudflare ffs!
      - jimmydorry 5y ago
        Why would you assume I am not interested in Freenet and Tor? Please review the Hacker News guidelines, as you are not replying in good faith.
    - boopboopbadoop 5y ago
      A couple questions to dig into each point: What problem does it solve? Could web3 have the same problem? If so, how will web3 solve it? Most of the points mentioned are security features to shield people from bad actors, something that crypto does not seem very good at thus far, which is why I’m curious how web3 solves similar things.
      - jimmydorry 5y ago
        I'm most excited for digital asset marketplaces. I don't work in the space, and I only have a look at where things are every few months, so I'm probably the last person you should be asking. Just like any paradigm change though, it's going to rely on the "killer implementation" to take off to kickstart the paradigm reaching mass appeal.
    - Barrin92 5y ago
      >You need permission from the central root certifying authorities[...] >You need to remain out of the shitlist of a handful of “spam and anti-evil” authorities And the exact same will happen in the world of 'web3'. Except you won't sign your terms and conditions in English but in from of a smart contract. The internet is a distributed computer, blockchains are distributed computers. Whatever people built on top of it will be as permissioned and have as many authorities as anything else. You think you can't do encrypted, peer-to-peer communication without authorities on the good old internet? Of course you can, there's nothing technically in the way of it at all. It's just that nobody runs a business that way and they won't do it in the world of 'web3' either.
  - waffle_maniac 5y ago
    It's a cultural shift that is epitomized by trends like WSB, $GME, and Robinhood. To older people it doesn't make sense. So you can scream and shout that it is illogical (like many have re: gold, silver, etc) and adoption will continue to increase and the value of the underlying assets will go up.
    - almost 5y ago
      It’s funny you should bring up other situations in which people in the know manipulate “less sophisticated” actors for their own benefit. And that you think the alternative you’re arguing away from is investing in gold and silver is kind of hilarious. Precarious metal “investors” are just a different generation of poor fools.
      - short12 5y ago
        People in the know are the "less Sophisticated" group
winternett 5y ago
Part of the profit part of the web does not include decentralizing tech... This is the one thing that makes everything a scam. If you mint a new coin or NFT, there is always a bunch of actions a seller or buyer can take to either bolster or undermine the price of the asset. Web 3 is also based on an economy of popularity and/or financial backing to either increase value or disparage an asset, which makes manipulation rampant, and it also makes the "Web 3 economy" inherently corrupt. Frankly, it's not a movement, it's really to me just a mutation of MLM and pyramid-scheme marketing online. Sorry to be so harsh, but the way it's being spammed at all of us every day, and infecting real online commerce is abhorrent, and growing to the point where not much can be trusted when Web 3 is mentioned for me.
kirso 5y ago
This! Also compared to a mobile ecosystem which is actually dependent on a few centralised players for distribution. WEB is still arguably free. You can choose your social network - if you don't like it, create one. You can choose where to store your data - if you don't like it, move it. You can choose where to host your website - if you don't like it, you have options... etc.

on top of that decentralized part is already the web itself is pretty much it

by qaq 5y ago

on top of that decentralized part is already the web itself is pretty much it

No. If you read up on how the web works at its base, it’s highly centralized. If you look how people interact with the web, it’s highly centralized to a handful of apps by a handful of companies.

almost 5y ago
People choose to do that because it’s convenient. There’s nothing in any of the nebulous ideas around “web3” that would change that. You can use a federated social network RIGHT NOW. Or you can just make your own website TODAY. No permission needed, you get complete ownership. It’s the amazing decentralised dream that was (and is) the internet. Only thing it won’t do is potentially make you rich (at the expense of others) just for getting in (and out!) at the right time.
- qorrect 5y ago
  Very good points. I can't see Joe the Plumber using or caring about web3 if it requires any more effort then the current internet ( which is arguably already decentralized ... )
- jimmydorry 5y ago
  - You need permission from the central root certifying authorities (aka. getting a domain) for people to be able to find your site. - You need to remain out of the shitlist of a handful of “spam and anti-evil” authorities (getting on a list means your site gets blocked by all the big browsers and can be permanent or take a long time to resolve) - You need permission to host your content from the: hardware / cloud provider, the datacentre if you self-host, and / or intermediary ISPs for peering (if no-one will peer, your site may as well not exists) There are some other parties you need permission or blessing from that don’t come immediately to mind.
  - almost 5y ago
    Freenet and Tor have existed for a while and are solutions to these problems for those that need them. You’re not interested in that though are you? No coins so no option for speculation. Web3 as it currently stands (as I said before it’s a slippery weasel word so no don’t you’ll change it to suite) also needs all that stuff. Most “web3” apps are served via Cloudflare ffs!
    - jimmydorry 5y ago
      Why would you assume I am not interested in Freenet and Tor? Please review the Hacker News guidelines, as you are not replying in good faith.
  - boopboopbadoop 5y ago
    A couple questions to dig into each point: What problem does it solve? Could web3 have the same problem? If so, how will web3 solve it? Most of the points mentioned are security features to shield people from bad actors, something that crypto does not seem very good at thus far, which is why I’m curious how web3 solves similar things.
    - jimmydorry 5y ago
      I'm most excited for digital asset marketplaces. I don't work in the space, and I only have a look at where things are every few months, so I'm probably the last person you should be asking. Just like any paradigm change though, it's going to rely on the "killer implementation" to take off to kickstart the paradigm reaching mass appeal.
  - Barrin92 5y ago
    >You need permission from the central root certifying authorities[...] >You need to remain out of the shitlist of a handful of “spam and anti-evil” authorities And the exact same will happen in the world of 'web3'. Except you won't sign your terms and conditions in English but in from of a smart contract. The internet is a distributed computer, blockchains are distributed computers. Whatever people built on top of it will be as permissioned and have as many authorities as anything else. You think you can't do encrypted, peer-to-peer communication without authorities on the good old internet? Of course you can, there's nothing technically in the way of it at all. It's just that nobody runs a business that way and they won't do it in the world of 'web3' either.
- waffle_maniac 5y ago
  It's a cultural shift that is epitomized by trends like WSB, $GME, and Robinhood. To older people it doesn't make sense. So you can scream and shout that it is illogical (like many have re: gold, silver, etc) and adoption will continue to increase and the value of the underlying assets will go up.
  - almost 5y ago
    It’s funny you should bring up other situations in which people in the know manipulate “less sophisticated” actors for their own benefit. And that you think the alternative you’re arguing away from is investing in gold and silver is kind of hilarious. Precarious metal “investors” are just a different generation of poor fools.
    - short12 5y ago
      People in the know are the "less Sophisticated" group

winternett 5y ago

Part of the profit part of the web does not include decentralizing tech... This is the one thing that makes everything a scam. If you mint a new coin or NFT, there is always a bunch of actions a seller or buyer can take to either bolster or undermine the price of the asset. Web 3 is also based on an economy of popularity and/or financial backing to either increase value or disparage an asset, which makes manipulation rampant, and it also makes the "Web 3 economy" inherently corrupt. Frankly, it's not a movement, it's really to me just a mutation of MLM and pyramid-scheme marketing online. Sorry to be so harsh, but the way it's being spammed at all of us every day, and infecting real online commerce is abhorrent, and growing to the point where not much can be trusted when Web 3 is mentioned for me.

kirso 5y ago

This! Also compared to a mobile ecosystem which is actually dependent on a few centralised players for distribution. WEB is still arguably free. You can choose your social network - if you don't like it, create one. You can choose where to store your data - if you don't like it, move it. You can choose where to host your website - if you don't like it, you have options... etc.