4 ms·

Show HN: 8Bit Computers Book

83 points by daitangio 5y ago

Hi everybody! Due to Covid 19 pandemic I was forced in my home, so I revamped my book https://8bit.gioorgi.com https://8bit.gioorgi.com It is a huge collection of information about the 8bit comnputer era (1980-1985) up to the NES console. I collected information from various source including “The 8bit Guy” videos and specific site (like C64 wiki, nesdev etc). I am using docusaurus to give a pleasnt look to the whole site. Please give me you feedback (and happy new year btw)!

simonblack 5y ago
While that looks good as far as it goes,it is incomplete as it leaves out the 8080/Z80 and 680x worlds of the 1970s-80s, along with the main disk-based OSs of that period (mainly CP/M). Well done.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- jjav 5y ago
  The 6809 rocked, particularly when paired with OS-9. https://www.roug.org/retrocomputing/os/os9 https://www.roug.org/retrocomputing/os/os9
jbverschoor 5y ago
MSX?
rzzzt 5y ago
In this section, "6510." (presumably) got converted into an empty numbered list item: https://8bit.gioorgi.com/docs/8bit/commodore64#65536-bytes-of-memory https://8bit.gioorgi.com/docs/8bit/commodore64#65536-bytes-o...
Lio 5y ago
I really like this site, it’s a blast for me. Please keep at it as this stuff deserves to be remembered. I realise the book is still in draft and so open to change but it might be worth noting that in its current form you’re only covering the American 8-bit market. To my European eyes it looks weird to talk about the 8-bit scene and not mention Acorn BBC Micro, Sinclair and compatibles or Amstrad. I can also see the abscess of MSX references. That’s fine if that’s the goal but does leave out a lot of world changing developments. E.g. the design of the BBC Micro led to the design of the first Arm processor. Running BBC BASIC at the speed of 6502 assembler was one of its design goals.
- flatiron 5y ago
  Oy! What about me speccy!
  - Lio 5y ago
    I thought I'd covered that with Sinclair and compatibles ;) I'm actually more ashamed I missed off interesting stuff from Tulip, Dragon, Grundy, RM, Minitel and a whole host of others.
- Lio 5y ago
  > abscess of MSX references Doh! \blush Cheers Apple.
- krallja 5y ago
  To my American eyes, it’s missing one of the three “Trinity” machines: the TRS-80 and all its descendants. It’s also exclusively focused on the 6502, rather than the 6800, 6809, Z80, 8008…
  - ddingus 5y ago
    Yes, the different CPUs added a richness to this time period readers are very likely to find enjoyable as well as enlightening. Ahhh, the 6809! It's my favorite 8 bit CPU. If you've not given it a look, please reconsider. You are likely to benefit too. That chip is beautiful, and is a whole lot more powerful and elegant than one might expect an 8 bit CPU to be. Let me seed the content a little: (and the 6800 too, because why not?) Williams "DEFENDER" runs on a 6809 at 1Mhz, no blitter, no tiles, just a straight up bitmapped display. Here's a tutorial video with an expert player and a new gamer being introduced to the game. Lots of gems in their chatter and a good look at what an 8 bit CPU can really do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PEpDMgR9D0&t=293s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PEpDMgR9D0&t=293s Fun fact: DEFENDER plays one sound at a time, and the sound board is a 6800 (also a good CPU and missing from the list) connected right to a DAC to generate sound procedurally. Williams has a distinctive sound in all their classic games, and this board is why. Amazingly, DEFENDER was ported to the Color Computer 3, the sound board replaced with samples. Doing that worked better than I thought it might, and overall the game play is on point. This port impresses me because of how different the frame buffer RAM layout is, and the 6809 being flexible enough in it's many addressing modes appears to manage in both scenarios. Very little is lost. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLdAvNj8HNI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLdAvNj8HNI I hope to see one of the better players run the port, and or play it myself on a system one day soon. Here's a system I've always wanted: http://www.oldcomputers.net/swtpc-s09.html http://www.oldcomputers.net/swtpc-s09.html It's an 8bit workstation! 768K of RAM, nice storage, respectable terminal, expandable... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLdAvNj8HNI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLdAvNj8HNI They made respectable machines using both the 6800 and 6809 chips. The 6800 ended up in wonderful Tektronix computers and terminals. The computer was industrial, and intended for prototyping, science and industrial control and not commonly known. https://www.primidi.com/motorola_6800/personal_computers https://www.primidi.com/motorola_6800/personal_computers The terminals were well known, high resolution vector, and wait for it... CRT STORAGE TUBE displays! These delivered "4k" vector graphics in the 70's! The catch? No refresh cycles on the displays. Instead of blasting through all the vectors X times per second, these CRT displays would continue to glow, until erased for a new screen display. The 4051 came with tape, X,Y analog joystick or dials, keyboard, display, and serial ports, and a very powerful "BASIC" that had a strong emphasis on math and graphics. I used this system to program CNC machines back in the day, and what could be done in BASIC on one was impressive. Check out the demo set. These displays are beautiful and functional. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZsiR45tKKw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZsiR45tKKw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFfp8JHmFjA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFfp8JHmFjA
donio 5y ago
I know you gotta start somewhere but just Apple and Commodore is a very narrow focus. There was so much more out there.
- timbit42 5y ago
  Yes, now add: MSX, Sinclair ZX Spectrum, Atari 8-bit computers, Amstrad CPC, Acorn BBC Micro, Tandy Color Computer, Tandy TRS-80.
mdp2021 5y ago
Contains a few pearls... > Commodore licensed BASIC from Microsoft on a "pay once, no royalties" basis after Jack Tramiel turned down Bill Gates' offer of a $3 per unit fee, stating, "I'm already married"
sds333 5y ago
very cool thanks
fit2rule 5y ago
nivenkos 5y ago
Electronic Dreams is a great book for a British perspective - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25663666-electronic-dreams https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25663666-electronic-drea...
sedan_baklazhan 5y ago
Looks interesting, thanks! Any chance of providing a PDF file for download?
ddingus 5y ago
This era in computing is hot right now. Lots of us remembering, sharing our stories and the more the merrier, in my view. I like that you are including current information and efforts, such as "A Mind is Born" demo production. Cool.

83 points by daitangio 5y ago

simonblack 5y ago

While that looks good as far as it goes,it is incomplete as it leaves out the 8080/Z80 and 680x worlds of the 1970s-80s, along with the main disk-based OSs of that period (mainly CP/M). Well done.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jjav 5y ago
The 6809 rocked, particularly when paired with OS-9. https://www.roug.org/retrocomputing/os/os9 https://www.roug.org/retrocomputing/os/os9

jbverschoor 5y ago

MSX?

rzzzt 5y ago

In this section, "6510." (presumably) got converted into an empty numbered list item: https://8bit.gioorgi.com/docs/8bit/commodore64#65536-bytes-of-memory https://8bit.gioorgi.com/docs/8bit/commodore64#65536-bytes-o...

Lio 5y ago

I really like this site, it’s a blast for me. Please keep at it as this stuff deserves to be remembered. I realise the book is still in draft and so open to change but it might be worth noting that in its current form you’re only covering the American 8-bit market. To my European eyes it looks weird to talk about the 8-bit scene and not mention Acorn BBC Micro, Sinclair and compatibles or Amstrad. I can also see the abscess of MSX references. That’s fine if that’s the goal but does leave out a lot of world changing developments. E.g. the design of the BBC Micro led to the design of the first Arm processor. Running BBC BASIC at the speed of 6502 assembler was one of its design goals.

flatiron 5y ago
Oy! What about me speccy!
- Lio 5y ago
  I thought I'd covered that with Sinclair and compatibles ;) I'm actually more ashamed I missed off interesting stuff from Tulip, Dragon, Grundy, RM, Minitel and a whole host of others.
Lio 5y ago
> abscess of MSX references Doh! \blush Cheers Apple.
krallja 5y ago
To my American eyes, it’s missing one of the three “Trinity” machines: the TRS-80 and all its descendants. It’s also exclusively focused on the 6502, rather than the 6800, 6809, Z80, 8008…
- ddingus 5y ago
  Yes, the different CPUs added a richness to this time period readers are very likely to find enjoyable as well as enlightening. Ahhh, the 6809! It's my favorite 8 bit CPU. If you've not given it a look, please reconsider. You are likely to benefit too. That chip is beautiful, and is a whole lot more powerful and elegant than one might expect an 8 bit CPU to be. Let me seed the content a little: (and the 6800 too, because why not?) Williams "DEFENDER" runs on a 6809 at 1Mhz, no blitter, no tiles, just a straight up bitmapped display. Here's a tutorial video with an expert player and a new gamer being introduced to the game. Lots of gems in their chatter and a good look at what an 8 bit CPU can really do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PEpDMgR9D0&t=293s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PEpDMgR9D0&t=293s Fun fact: DEFENDER plays one sound at a time, and the sound board is a 6800 (also a good CPU and missing from the list) connected right to a DAC to generate sound procedurally. Williams has a distinctive sound in all their classic games, and this board is why. Amazingly, DEFENDER was ported to the Color Computer 3, the sound board replaced with samples. Doing that worked better than I thought it might, and overall the game play is on point. This port impresses me because of how different the frame buffer RAM layout is, and the 6809 being flexible enough in it's many addressing modes appears to manage in both scenarios. Very little is lost. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLdAvNj8HNI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLdAvNj8HNI I hope to see one of the better players run the port, and or play it myself on a system one day soon. Here's a system I've always wanted: http://www.oldcomputers.net/swtpc-s09.html http://www.oldcomputers.net/swtpc-s09.html It's an 8bit workstation! 768K of RAM, nice storage, respectable terminal, expandable... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLdAvNj8HNI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLdAvNj8HNI They made respectable machines using both the 6800 and 6809 chips. The 6800 ended up in wonderful Tektronix computers and terminals. The computer was industrial, and intended for prototyping, science and industrial control and not commonly known. https://www.primidi.com/motorola_6800/personal_computers https://www.primidi.com/motorola_6800/personal_computers The terminals were well known, high resolution vector, and wait for it... CRT STORAGE TUBE displays! These delivered "4k" vector graphics in the 70's! The catch? No refresh cycles on the displays. Instead of blasting through all the vectors X times per second, these CRT displays would continue to glow, until erased for a new screen display. The 4051 came with tape, X,Y analog joystick or dials, keyboard, display, and serial ports, and a very powerful "BASIC" that had a strong emphasis on math and graphics. I used this system to program CNC machines back in the day, and what could be done in BASIC on one was impressive. Check out the demo set. These displays are beautiful and functional. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZsiR45tKKw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZsiR45tKKw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFfp8JHmFjA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFfp8JHmFjA

donio 5y ago

I know you gotta start somewhere but just Apple and Commodore is a very narrow focus. There was so much more out there.

timbit42 5y ago
Yes, now add: MSX, Sinclair ZX Spectrum, Atari 8-bit computers, Amstrad CPC, Acorn BBC Micro, Tandy Color Computer, Tandy TRS-80.

mdp2021 5y ago

Contains a few pearls... > Commodore licensed BASIC from Microsoft on a "pay once, no royalties" basis after Jack Tramiel turned down Bill Gates' offer of a $3 per unit fee, stating, "I'm already married"

sds333 5y ago

very cool thanks

fit2rule 5y ago

nivenkos 5y ago

Electronic Dreams is a great book for a British perspective - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25663666-electronic-dreams https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25663666-electronic-drea...

sedan_baklazhan 5y ago

Looks interesting, thanks! Any chance of providing a PDF file for download?

ddingus 5y ago

This era in computing is hot right now. Lots of us remembering, sharing our stories and the more the merrier, in my view. I like that you are including current information and efforts, such as "A Mind is Born" demo production. Cool.