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> By correlating rules with success or failure of the societies, we can begin to tease out what the best set of rules are. Clearly, some sets of rules work a lo

> By correlating rules with success or failure of the societies, we can begin to tease out what the best set of rules are. Clearly, some sets of rules work a lot better than others. How do you measure success or failure? Whoever lasts the longest is the most successful? Because by that measure, the longest lived societies were empires ruled by monarchs.. they did not guarantee rights.

WalterBright 5y ago
> How do you measure success or failure? A great question! Here's one way. Does a country build walls to keep people in, or keep people out? How about that terrible video of people clinging to a jet leaving Afghanistan and falling off of it to their deaths? Were they fleeing a Taliban golden age in Afghanistan? I personally know several people who fled the USSR. Ask them about the golden age they risked their lives to leave.
- cortesoft 5y ago
  > Here's one way. Does a country build walls to keep people in, or keep people out? Ok, so this basically amounts to using average life satisfaction as your measurement for success of a country. You could easily use any other measure, though, if you have a different goal... for example, my first thought was that "continued existence" was the measure of success, and whichever nation lasted the longest would be considered the most successful (a sort of Darwinian measure)... Look, I personally agree with your measure of success. I am a child of the enlightenment, and I do believe that state authority rests with the will of the people. However, that is not an a priori fact... not everyone agrees with that as the criteria you judge a civilization, and it is not some natural fact that everyone is equal and deserves liberty, etc. Natural law is "whoever survives survives".
- bee_rider 5y ago
  > Here's one way. Does a country build walls to keep people in, or keep people out? Can you make this into an actual measurable statistic or does this require us to just guess at the motivations of wall builders?
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    I'm wondering what you think the purpose of the wall along the Rio Grande is for. It was in all the papers for the last 6 years. Or why the Soviet Union built a wall across Europe.
    - bee_rider 5y ago
      So, nothing quantifiable? I guess the if we ask the people who built those walls they'll give us whatever answers they think are convenient for their propaganda purposes in the moment.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]

WalterBright 5y ago

> How do you measure success or failure? A great question! Here's one way. Does a country build walls to keep people in, or keep people out? How about that terrible video of people clinging to a jet leaving Afghanistan and falling off of it to their deaths? Were they fleeing a Taliban golden age in Afghanistan? I personally know several people who fled the USSR. Ask them about the golden age they risked their lives to leave.

cortesoft 5y ago
> Here's one way. Does a country build walls to keep people in, or keep people out? Ok, so this basically amounts to using average life satisfaction as your measurement for success of a country. You could easily use any other measure, though, if you have a different goal... for example, my first thought was that "continued existence" was the measure of success, and whichever nation lasted the longest would be considered the most successful (a sort of Darwinian measure)... Look, I personally agree with your measure of success. I am a child of the enlightenment, and I do believe that state authority rests with the will of the people. However, that is not an a priori fact... not everyone agrees with that as the criteria you judge a civilization, and it is not some natural fact that everyone is equal and deserves liberty, etc. Natural law is "whoever survives survives".
bee_rider 5y ago
> Here's one way. Does a country build walls to keep people in, or keep people out? Can you make this into an actual measurable statistic or does this require us to just guess at the motivations of wall builders?
- WalterBright 5y ago
  I'm wondering what you think the purpose of the wall along the Rio Grande is for. It was in all the papers for the last 6 years. Or why the Soviet Union built a wall across Europe.
  - bee_rider 5y ago
    So, nothing quantifiable? I guess the if we ask the people who built those walls they'll give us whatever answers they think are convenient for their propaganda purposes in the moment.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]