5 ms·

I wonder if this has any implications over iPhone (or cellphones in general) photos in court. This might be brought up to overturn any photo evidence from phon

I wonder if this has any implications over iPhone (or cellphones in general) photos in court. This might be brought up to overturn any photo evidence from phones.

hughrr 5y ago
All photos regardless of the source are a corruption of reality both semantically and technically speaking. I think they should always be used on a case by case basis with corroborating evidence.
- iamacyborg 5y ago
  I recall reading a lot of fantastic essays on the “reality” of photos when I studied photography at A Level. I’ll have to see if I can dig stuff up, but I recall there being a lot of controversy surrounding posing of bodies in early war photography.
  - roywiggins 5y ago
    Probably the most famous one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Falling_Soldier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Falling_Soldier
    - iamacyborg 5y ago
      That one definitely but I was thinking of Alexander Gardner’s Home of a rebel sharpshooter.
fknorangesite 5y ago
...um: https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/11/11/defense-in-kyle-rittenhouse-trial-argues-apple-ai-manipulates-video-footage https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/11/11/defense-in-kyle-r... Regardless of the validity of the objection in this specific case, yes it's already happening.
post_break 5y ago
This came up big time with the Rittenhouse trial when the judge didn't want to use the pinch to zoom method on video of the event. A lot of people laughed because he talked about AI but he was on the right path, it does inject pixels to scale the image.
- dagmx 5y ago
  No. He wasn't on the right path because he was talking about the wrong thing. It astounds me how people are so quickly conflating multiple different scenarios. Playback and capture are very different things. Would you be accepting people complaining about log4j vulnerabilities with regards to a C++ code base for example? No, because you'd know the nuanced difference that's inherent in a code base. Image processing is the same. It's not just all one catch all Boogeyman
  - xdennis 5y ago
    It's not clear what you're disputing. Criminal trials are generally biased towards the defense. If it's unclear if the evidence is doctored or not it shouldn't be introduced to potentially mislead the jury.
    - dagmx 5y ago
      I'm disputing people using this case of the iPhone CAPTURE process screwing up as vindication for the judges distrust of the PLAYBACK process. A) video scaling is a well documented and well understood field. The judge's mistrust was wrong to begin with, and if he distrusted the scaling algorithm, then there's no reason to trust any capture process either. It's reductionist if they're not going to try and understand what's going on. B) if the judge mistrusted it, there should be a standard platform for playback that can be trusted by them otherwise it's an easy out for dismissing any evidence C) again, people are conflating capture and playback. They're different, and issues in one don't translate directly to the other.

I wonder if this has any implications over iPhone (or cellphones in general) photos in court. This might be brought up to overturn any photo evidence from phones.

hughrr 5y ago

All photos regardless of the source are a corruption of reality both semantically and technically speaking. I think they should always be used on a case by case basis with corroborating evidence.

iamacyborg 5y ago
I recall reading a lot of fantastic essays on the “reality” of photos when I studied photography at A Level. I’ll have to see if I can dig stuff up, but I recall there being a lot of controversy surrounding posing of bodies in early war photography.
- roywiggins 5y ago
  Probably the most famous one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Falling_Soldier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Falling_Soldier
  - iamacyborg 5y ago
    That one definitely but I was thinking of Alexander Gardner’s Home of a rebel sharpshooter.

fknorangesite 5y ago

...um: https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/11/11/defense-in-kyle-rittenhouse-trial-argues-apple-ai-manipulates-video-footage https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/11/11/defense-in-kyle-r... Regardless of the validity of the objection in this specific case, yes it's already happening.

post_break 5y ago

This came up big time with the Rittenhouse trial when the judge didn't want to use the pinch to zoom method on video of the event. A lot of people laughed because he talked about AI but he was on the right path, it does inject pixels to scale the image.

dagmx 5y ago
No. He wasn't on the right path because he was talking about the wrong thing. It astounds me how people are so quickly conflating multiple different scenarios. Playback and capture are very different things. Would you be accepting people complaining about log4j vulnerabilities with regards to a C++ code base for example? No, because you'd know the nuanced difference that's inherent in a code base. Image processing is the same. It's not just all one catch all Boogeyman
- xdennis 5y ago
  It's not clear what you're disputing. Criminal trials are generally biased towards the defense. If it's unclear if the evidence is doctored or not it shouldn't be introduced to potentially mislead the jury.
  - dagmx 5y ago
    I'm disputing people using this case of the iPhone CAPTURE process screwing up as vindication for the judges distrust of the PLAYBACK process. A) video scaling is a well documented and well understood field. The judge's mistrust was wrong to begin with, and if he distrusted the scaling algorithm, then there's no reason to trust any capture process either. It's reductionist if they're not going to try and understand what's going on. B) if the judge mistrusted it, there should be a standard platform for playback that can be trusted by them otherwise it's an easy out for dismissing any evidence C) again, people are conflating capture and playback. They're different, and issues in one don't translate directly to the other.