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I work with the systems on a warehouse where robot arms similar to these are doing stacking of boxes. It's not really that efficient. Using robot arms is the na

I work with the systems on a warehouse where robot arms similar to these are doing stacking of boxes. It's not really that efficient. Using robot arms is the natural improvement when automating a previously manual step, but rethinking the whole process instead yields a much bigger boost. At least that's what we hope with our new process soon up and running.. If anything, the new automation process is much simpler at least, there are sooo much that can go wrong with big robot arms. They look cool, though, great for recruiting.

ibejoeb 5y ago
Similar to Energy Vault and other potential energy storage schemes. Conceptually it's sound, but the implementation is weak with respect to real-world constraints.
ozim 5y ago
I have never seen driving robot arm. Ones I have seen were always mounted in place. If this one can drive around as I understand -"omnidirectional mobile base"- with a box it is different game from my point of view.
- matsemann 5y ago
  True. But given the complexity and also safety considerations for a stationary arm, I'm not envying those having to deal with a mobile one, heh.
- syntaxing 5y ago
  You can get a mobile base for a UR arm. Forgot the company name but it has omniwheels too
- TaylorAlexander 5y ago
  The industry term is "mobile manipulator". For example the Google X robot for Everyday Robots, which I helped work on for a while, is such a robot. https://everydayrobots.com/ https://everydayrobots.com/
deadmutex 5y ago
> but rethinking the whole process instead yields a much bigger boost. This is pretty underrated, IMO. There are some good examples of Robots being outdated by simpler processes: e.g. the new process for building Teslas is vastly simpler than having so many precisely calibrated giant robots joining different parts.
- hitekker 5y ago
  That's quite intriguing to hear. Do you have a link that offers more details?
  - wheelinsupial 5y ago
    They might be referring to this article: https://electrek.co/2019/07/23/tesla-giant-machine-produce-model-y-body-one-piece/amp/ https://electrek.co/2019/07/23/tesla-giant-machine-produce-m... Discussing the frame / body construction on the model y. “‘When we get the big casting machine, it’ll go from 70 parts to 1 with a significant reduction in capital expenditure on all the robots to put those parts together.’”
    - throwawayboise 5y ago
      And a significant increase in the cost of collision repair, if it is even economically possible at at all.
      - bserge 5y ago
      - zaroth 5y ago
        My understanding is that it can be repaired for the same approximate cost, but it requires a different technique (welding)? So it’s a training opportunity for the workforce to earn slightly more per hour and open up new job opportunities with the same margins. Also consider they are foreseeing a world with fewer accidents, specifically accidents with Teslas.
AussieWog93 5y ago
>rethinking the whole process instead yields a much bigger boost. Reminds me of a Tom Scott video where he checks out the Ocado warehouse in the UK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssZ_8cqfBlE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssZ_8cqfBlE It's crazy; they've rethought the entire system to have it navigable by machine.
- noodlesUK 5y ago
  This was an absolutely fantastic video, thanks for sharing that. I’ve ordered from Ocado before, but I never thought that the logistics behind it were so different from just a very large warehouse store…
- NortySpock 5y ago
  Is that the one that caught fire and they didn't want to use water to put it out because it would harm the robots? https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-58190969 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-58190969 Also... As as exercise for the reader, compare the Ocado top-down picker with the Kiva (now Amazon) bottom-up shelf lifter, and then guess which system has a better value-for-money and is faster to deploy.
  - gridspy 5y ago
    Looks like they should have invested in alternative non-water fire suppression technology rather than choosing the "no suppression" option. From Article linked by parent: > A Hampshire Fire and Rescue Authority report found there was an hour's delay in dialling 999 and staff had turned off the sprinkler system.
  - jimnotgym 5y ago
    A friends company implemented Kiva. It still took many years of planning and implementation.
  - thamer 5y ago
    No, it's not the same warehouse. The article says "The facility in Andover, Hampshire, burnt down [...]" – which is here: https://goo.gl/maps/sKC2oBkL9JJUawuY8 https://goo.gl/maps/sKC2oBkL9JJUawuY8 Whereas Tom Scott was at this location: https://goo.gl/maps/H54SKTkumd4dEyam6 https://goo.gl/maps/H54SKTkumd4dEyam6 (the same outside view of the location is at 0:03 in the video linked above).
_hcuq 5y ago
Yep. I used to work in lab automation. We found that using Cartesian systems and rethinking the processes could yield order of magnitude improvements. An Arm just replaces one operator.

ibejoeb 5y ago

Similar to Energy Vault and other potential energy storage schemes. Conceptually it's sound, but the implementation is weak with respect to real-world constraints.

ozim 5y ago

I have never seen driving robot arm. Ones I have seen were always mounted in place. If this one can drive around as I understand -"omnidirectional mobile base"- with a box it is different game from my point of view.

matsemann 5y ago
True. But given the complexity and also safety considerations for a stationary arm, I'm not envying those having to deal with a mobile one, heh.
syntaxing 5y ago
You can get a mobile base for a UR arm. Forgot the company name but it has omniwheels too
TaylorAlexander 5y ago
The industry term is "mobile manipulator". For example the Google X robot for Everyday Robots, which I helped work on for a while, is such a robot. https://everydayrobots.com/ https://everydayrobots.com/

deadmutex 5y ago

> but rethinking the whole process instead yields a much bigger boost. This is pretty underrated, IMO. There are some good examples of Robots being outdated by simpler processes: e.g. the new process for building Teslas is vastly simpler than having so many precisely calibrated giant robots joining different parts.

hitekker 5y ago
That's quite intriguing to hear. Do you have a link that offers more details?
- wheelinsupial 5y ago
  They might be referring to this article: https://electrek.co/2019/07/23/tesla-giant-machine-produce-model-y-body-one-piece/amp/ https://electrek.co/2019/07/23/tesla-giant-machine-produce-m... Discussing the frame / body construction on the model y. “‘When we get the big casting machine, it’ll go from 70 parts to 1 with a significant reduction in capital expenditure on all the robots to put those parts together.’”
  - throwawayboise 5y ago
    And a significant increase in the cost of collision repair, if it is even economically possible at at all.
    - bserge 5y ago
    - zaroth 5y ago
      My understanding is that it can be repaired for the same approximate cost, but it requires a different technique (welding)? So it’s a training opportunity for the workforce to earn slightly more per hour and open up new job opportunities with the same margins. Also consider they are foreseeing a world with fewer accidents, specifically accidents with Teslas.

AussieWog93 5y ago

>rethinking the whole process instead yields a much bigger boost. Reminds me of a Tom Scott video where he checks out the Ocado warehouse in the UK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssZ_8cqfBlE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssZ_8cqfBlE It's crazy; they've rethought the entire system to have it navigable by machine.

noodlesUK 5y ago
This was an absolutely fantastic video, thanks for sharing that. I’ve ordered from Ocado before, but I never thought that the logistics behind it were so different from just a very large warehouse store…
NortySpock 5y ago
Is that the one that caught fire and they didn't want to use water to put it out because it would harm the robots? https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-58190969 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-58190969 Also... As as exercise for the reader, compare the Ocado top-down picker with the Kiva (now Amazon) bottom-up shelf lifter, and then guess which system has a better value-for-money and is faster to deploy.
- gridspy 5y ago
  Looks like they should have invested in alternative non-water fire suppression technology rather than choosing the "no suppression" option. From Article linked by parent: > A Hampshire Fire and Rescue Authority report found there was an hour's delay in dialling 999 and staff had turned off the sprinkler system.
- jimnotgym 5y ago
  A friends company implemented Kiva. It still took many years of planning and implementation.
- thamer 5y ago
  No, it's not the same warehouse. The article says "The facility in Andover, Hampshire, burnt down [...]" – which is here: https://goo.gl/maps/sKC2oBkL9JJUawuY8 https://goo.gl/maps/sKC2oBkL9JJUawuY8 Whereas Tom Scott was at this location: https://goo.gl/maps/H54SKTkumd4dEyam6 https://goo.gl/maps/H54SKTkumd4dEyam6 (the same outside view of the location is at 0:03 in the video linked above).

_hcuq 5y ago

Yep. I used to work in lab automation. We found that using Cartesian systems and rethinking the processes could yield order of magnitude improvements. An Arm just replaces one operator.