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> Is that not describing hyper-intelligence? Leaders so smart and wise that they achieve their goals without anyone noticing them? Do you have a definition fo

by chrsig 5y ago

> Is that not describing hyper-intelligence? Leaders so smart and wise that they achieve their goals without anyone noticing them? Do you have a definition for hyper-intelligence? > I disagree, I think that knowledge (by definition) is that information that makes us capable of changing our behavior at will. Intelligence is operational. Smart people that become addicts and can't stop are obviously less intelligent than those who avoid it in the first place or who find ways to stop, surely? No, because intelligence and impulse control are separable things.

carapace 5y ago
> Do you have a definition for hyper-intelligence? Trivially, anyone much much smarter than me. :) Hypothetically, take the top N% of the high end of the bell curve, where N is 0.1 or 0.001 or 0.000001 or whatever. But then you have the question of how to survey intelligence? Which brings me to my answer to your second point, > intelligence and impulse control are separable things. A quality called "intelligence" that does not engender impulse control isn't actually intelligence, eh? In other words I would define intelligence precisely as the ability of self-control combined with the ability to effect desired changes in the world. What's the point of "intelligence" that gives no "leverage", especially in the context of some "we" who are supposedly effective enough to institute a world-wide eugenics program?
- chrsig 5y ago
  > A quality called "intelligence" that does not engender impulse control isn't actually intelligence, eh? I mean, that's pretty dependent on the definition of intelligence. Going off a dictionary definition: > the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills. versus wisdom: > the quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgment; the quality of being wise. That to me sounds like every place you're saying intelligence, you mean wisdom. Redefining intelligence to wisdom isn't a thing, because words have meaning. The relationship being that intelligence makes acquiring wisdom faster. There isn't a strict requirement between the two. > What's the point of "intelligence" that gives no "leverage" Self enrichment/gratification/entertainment.
  - carapace 5y ago
    Intelligence has a pretty well established definition, the one you quote is fine, "the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills." I would say that, if one is really intelligent, one acquires and applies knowledge of oneself and the skills to change habits and behaviours. That's the "self-referential" stage of intelligence. Wisdom, on the other hand, is much harder to define. The definition you quoted is circular, as are almost all dictionary definitions of "wisdom". I've heard it said "A fool never learns, a man learns from his mistakes, the wise man learns from the mistakes of others." Some would say that wisdom comes from loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself. You say that they are different and that I'm "confusing intelligence with wisdom", but I say that wisdom and intelligence are on the same spectrum or continuum, that the former is the refinement and maturity of the latter. In any event, my original point is that proponents of eugenics are not as intelligent as they think they are.

by chrsig 5y ago

carapace 5y ago

> Do you have a definition for hyper-intelligence? Trivially, anyone much much smarter than me. :) Hypothetically, take the top N% of the high end of the bell curve, where N is 0.1 or 0.001 or 0.000001 or whatever. But then you have the question of how to survey intelligence? Which brings me to my answer to your second point, > intelligence and impulse control are separable things. A quality called "intelligence" that does not engender impulse control isn't actually intelligence, eh? In other words I would define intelligence precisely as the ability of self-control combined with the ability to effect desired changes in the world. What's the point of "intelligence" that gives no "leverage", especially in the context of some "we" who are supposedly effective enough to institute a world-wide eugenics program?

chrsig 5y ago
> A quality called "intelligence" that does not engender impulse control isn't actually intelligence, eh? I mean, that's pretty dependent on the definition of intelligence. Going off a dictionary definition: > the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills. versus wisdom: > the quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgment; the quality of being wise. That to me sounds like every place you're saying intelligence, you mean wisdom. Redefining intelligence to wisdom isn't a thing, because words have meaning. The relationship being that intelligence makes acquiring wisdom faster. There isn't a strict requirement between the two. > What's the point of "intelligence" that gives no "leverage" Self enrichment/gratification/entertainment.
- carapace 5y ago
  Intelligence has a pretty well established definition, the one you quote is fine, "the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills." I would say that, if one is really intelligent, one acquires and applies knowledge of oneself and the skills to change habits and behaviours. That's the "self-referential" stage of intelligence. Wisdom, on the other hand, is much harder to define. The definition you quoted is circular, as are almost all dictionary definitions of "wisdom". I've heard it said "A fool never learns, a man learns from his mistakes, the wise man learns from the mistakes of others." Some would say that wisdom comes from loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself. You say that they are different and that I'm "confusing intelligence with wisdom", but I say that wisdom and intelligence are on the same spectrum or continuum, that the former is the refinement and maturity of the latter. In any event, my original point is that proponents of eugenics are not as intelligent as they think they are.