9 ms·

But the risk for children getting sick at school and bringing it back to their parents very much does not play out like the flu. I also think it is irresponsib

• NikolaeVarius 5y ago
  And the teachers. I know 2 teachers that are terrified that the kids will get them Covid-19, since they already get sick from the petri dishes that are children.
  • throwawayboise 5y ago
    Are they not vaccinated? Do they not trust that the vaccine works, at least as far as preventing serious illness?
    • magicalhippo 5y ago
      Here in Norway the vaccine rollout for non-critical people followed just age brackets. So I, a programmer with zero issues working from home, got the vaccine weeks before tons of younger teachers, who had to go to class each day and meet kids which could potentially infect them. I guess it would be complicated if they had to start introducing multiple levels, or some sort of "you can have my seat" functionality, still...
      • phamilton 5y ago
        In most US states teachers were prioritized along with firefighters, health workers, etc.
        • ghaff 5y ago
          At least my state had a variety of non-age-related (self-reported) criteria for phases of eligibility including occupational and various health conditions.
    • NikolaeVarius 5y ago
      Yes they are. At least one of them has their health compromised and breakthrough cases have been a thing since day 1. Also, they work with a LOT of kids, so that alot more chances for exposure. They are not dumb.
    • HarryHirsch 5y ago
      • criley2 5y ago
        This is false. The current vaccine still makes one about 60x less likely to die of covid than being unvaccinated. It's ineffective at preventing infection to omicron, but highly effective at preventing death.
        • HarryHirsch 5y ago
          I read that the risk of death is reduced about tenfold, and meanwhile you are still infectious. Not a risk I am willing to take. Why are non-pharmaceutical interventions downplayed? Where are the promised paid sick days?
          • 13415 5y ago
            I'm not sure I understand you correctly. You do not want to take a vaccine that provides a tenfold reduction of the risk of dying from the Omicron variant? Or are you arguing that vaccinations with the existing vaccines should continue until better vaccines are available, in combination with other measures such as lockdowns, mask wearing, mandatory testing and quarantine, etc. If it's the latter, that's what most countries are doing right now. If it's the former, then I don't understand your position.
            • HarryHirsch 5y ago
              What I'm saying is that current vaccines are quite ineffectual against the present strain of the virus, and that NPI's, such as masking, social distancing, testing and quarantine are effective but not used. Having schools open in an active phase of the pandemic is the exact opposite of what should be done, that's how the virus spreads between households. Under the Orange Menace we had financial support for those who lost their jobs and loans for businesses that lost customers whereas the present administration fails to deliver at every front. They can't even do the promised paid sick leave. That's what would be needed now, instead we get shortened quarantine periods. You can't even get a quicktest if you wanted to.
  • throwaway_52828 5y ago
    If the teachers are vaxxed and boosted, COVID is less threatening than the flu. And if they aren’t, it seems like they don’t have grounds to complain. The only way this worry makes sense is if the teachers live with somebody who is highly immunocompromised. Which would indeed suck, but it’s crazy to design societal policy around those dangers.
    • dv_dt 5y ago
      Is less threatening for the single short outlook of being hospitalized. We still do not know the long term effects of Covid across a large population and it seems our governments have given up in favor of continued service in the economy.
      • hadlock 5y ago
        Yep this is important; Polio presented a lot like the flu, it wasn't until years or decades later that symptoms showed up. They didn't call it "long polio" though, they called it "post-polio syndrome". Famous author of 2001: A Space Odyssey Arthur C. Clarke ended up in a wheelchair decades due to post-polio syndrome after he contracted polio
      • coryrc 5y ago
        What are you proposing otherwise? This: https://news.yahoo.com/remote-learning-led-to-catastrophic-learning-loss-new-study-finds-143532040.html https://news.yahoo.com/remote-learning-led-to-catastrophic-l... Catastrophic learning loss. Any parents who can't afford nannies and won't die without working have had one leave the workforce. The ones who would die have just abandoned their kids. What I would propose is movement away from nuclear family to more communal living and extended family, but I just see oblivious people push remote learning like it actually solves the problem for most.
        • dv_dt 5y ago
          It seems the the conclusion that remote learning causes learning loss is very premature and not differentable from a lot of other factors that occurred simultaneously. Massive job losses, or incredible stresses on parents and family units, learning curve on remot resources, not a full year with massive educational environment changes, alternate standard testing regeimes, etc. That conclusion does however support a push for a return to work economic policy.
• stakkur 5y ago
  >"But the risk for children getting sick at school and bringing it back to their parents very much not does not play out like the flu." I don't think this is true, and I'd be interested to see data that backs up that claim. On that topic, here's a thoughtful article that dives into claims like that: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/07/the-kids-were-safe-from-covid-the-whole-time.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/07/the-kids-were-safe-f... My wife has been a public school teacher for 21 years, and has the same concerns and fears as anyone. Teachers, like other humans, have a spectrum of beliefs, concerns, and experiences.
  • dv_dt 5y ago
    There have been studies that confirmed it with the older Covid strains which were less transferable than even delta, let alone Omicron. With increased transfer rates it becomes an even more viable vector. The article you quote says this “ Once you get to a certain point of community infection rates, it does look like being in-person … is associated with COVID spread in the community,” said Katharine Strunk, an author of the study and professor at Michigan State University.” We are back to high community infection rates with omicron.
    • jokethrowaway 5y ago
      The new variants are more contagious but less deadly, so the situation is probably better now.
    • kcplate 5y ago
      > There have been studies that confirmed it with the older Covid strains which were less transferable than even delta, let alone Omicron. With increased transfer rates it becomes an even more viable vector Please cite some. No offense but after nearly 2 years of constant rumor about this virus, the treatments, the vaccines, etc… when I see: “there are studies that show (fill in the blank)” with no studies cited—-I assume hearsay.
• hitpointdrew 5y ago
  The risk of anyone un-vaxxed going to the hospital after catching covid is 0.89% (source: https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/354938/adults-estimates-covid-hospitalization-risk.aspx https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/354938/adults-estimat...) and it is even lower than that if you are vaxxed. It is incredibly unnecessary and risky to vax children, and probably most adults. The only people that this vax should be recommended to are people in high-risk categorizes.
  • cinntaile 5y ago
    0,89% is a lot. That's why you vaccinate.
  • dv_dt 5y ago
    There is an uncharacterized unknown risk in the long term post-sickness effects of Covid. Many may survive the immediate sickness but virus remains in the most for at least months, and there could be long term tissue damage or other changes. Also I’m not sure why you say the vaccine is such a risk for children. It’s currently undergoing study and an even younger age range is close to being approved. In general we are talking about a vaccine with some minuscule portion of the dna pattern of the virus vs getting exposed to the virus itself which includes the same pattern, and will get multiplied to millions of times higher exposure - along with many many other sequences of the full virus - all with unknown long term effects.
  • petmon 5y ago
    To be clear the 0.89% figure was obtained by dividing hospitalizations by population, so it includes many unvaccinated people who have not caught COVID (yet). The chance that an unvaccinated person who is COVID-positive will require hospitalization is around 3%.
    • cinntaile 5y ago
      Are these numbers for the US?
      • 5y ago
• kerabatsos 5y ago
  This is hardly ever mentioned. The fact that children easily spread it back to parents, etc. was (and still is) conveniently left out of the discussion - even prior to access to vaccinations it was simply ignored. It’s one of the reasons we kept our children home from school, the first year of the pandemic. There were even “experts” arguing that children just didn’t spread the virus at all - which turned out to be ludicrous.
  • dpark 5y ago
    > This is hardly ever mentioned. The fact that children easily spread it back to parents, etc… In no way was this ever left out of the discussion. This is a major part of the reason for all the virtual schooling that happened last year. There were some early reports that children weren’t spreading COVID, and to my knowledge that data was correct. Delta changed that due to the ease with which it spread. But even in the context of early COVID variants, transmission from students to at risk adults was a common topic.
  • xboxnolifes 5y ago
    > The fact that children easily spread it back to parents, etc. was (and still is) conveniently left out of the discussion Left out of the discussion? This is basically the entire discussion when vaccinating school children is ever brought up. It's the only defensible position to take.
    • socceroos 5y ago
      Why is it a defensible position when vaccinated youth spread COVID at significantly the same rate as unvaccinated youth?
      • xboxnolifes 5y ago
        Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant it is the only defensible position to take if you are trying to instate vaccine mandate for school children. Considering children's risk for covid, having the primary worry be their own health is pretty hard to defend.
• triceratops 5y ago
  The parents should be vaccinated, unless they have medical reason for not being able to. I'm vaccinated and I'm not particularly concerned about my kids bringing the virus home now. I'm more worried for them.
• dukeofdoom 5y ago
  Since children can't provide their own informed consent, its very morally dubious to give them medical treatments for something that is unlikely to make them sick, and seems on balance for the benefit of the parents. This is quite different from the other vaccines they currently take. In the event that the covid vaccine turn out to have long term health effects, a child has a long life to live with those side effects, unlike a 70 year old. So their risk is greater, and their potential suffering much longer lasting. Societies have generally made sacrifices for their children, and not sacrificed their children for the benefit of the elderly. The courts have also generally held the interests of the child supersedes the interests of the parents.
  • deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  • squiffsquiff 5y ago
    There's a significant precedent in this area: Rubella. Vaccinations are typically provided at 3-4 months of age (e.g. in UK). Rubella is typically a relatively mild disease with the exception of pregnancy when it can have severe effects on the foetus. The principal beneficiaries are those becoming pregnant many years later and the unvaccinated in the general population. This isn't contentious. Why is a similar position regarding COVID vaccination?
  • dv_dt 5y ago
    Harm is not limited to direct medical causes. Parents dying of Covid will cause significant mental and financial harm
• usaphp 5y ago
  But parents can be are vaccinated if they want to. This hopefully will eliminate a need for a mandate on children vaccination.
• Jansen312 5y ago
  Same severity as common flu. I got sick from common flu that my kids brought back. The issue here is basically how many percentage you get severe flu vs severe covid. Current covid is significantly milder compare to earlier one just came out from China plus majority has been vaccinated. Current flu is also significantly milder than the one responsible for Spanish or bird flu. Response need to be measured and not a one size fit all. Healthcare (admin side) will love to continue these as they can claim from government. You shouldn't take at face value whatever these healthcare professional is preaching at 100%. You can now go to 10 hospitals and it will be much less severe than if you do so just 9-12mths ago. Even during the height of covid, death rate from covid is around 4% (flu is like undee 0.2%). With 80% almost no symptom. Plus if you actually do extensive test, death rate will be way lower than 4%. Singapore proved that with their exceptionally low death rate due to their exceptional testing (increasing the denominator). My key point here is measured response. At some point we need to get back to normal lives just like the Americans that gone thru Spanish flu, polio and smallpox. The next time people around you talk about how dreadful Omicron is, ask them how many died due to Omicron strain. Ask why healthy infected Omicron is such a serious statistics when people dying or even "maimed" by Omicron is unreported or statistically not "recorded" or "published". Also asked yourself this, flu vaccines have been around for decades and many children did died from common flu, why you and the people you know didn't get flu jab religiously?