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At this point what is the case for vaccine requirements? * They aren't risk free (like we were all told initially) * They don't prevent transmission (like we

At this point what is the case for vaccine requirements? * They aren't risk free (like we were all told initially) * They don't prevent transmission (like we were all told initially) Full disclosure: fully vaxxed, got it the very first day I was allowed to. Wouldn't change the decision. That said: man I really cannot get over the fact that it feels like public health officials are just straight up lying to us all at this point. That is something that I really do not like for several reasons. Not the least of which is that it will prevent people from trusting them in the future, and that will have negative consequences for everyone.

yulaow 5y ago
The point since the start was to prevent serious cases. In my country the only target value under consideration for intensifying/reducing measures is just ICU occupations in hospital, and this rapid increase of cases, even with lower risk of serious cases compared to delta, is seriously jeopardizing our hospitals (again)
- miles 5y ago
  > The point since the start was to prevent serious cases. It was sold as preventing transmission: It's official: Vaccinated people don't transmit COVID-19 https://fortune.com/2021/04/01/its-official-vaccinated-people-dont-transmit-covid-19/ https://fortune.com/2021/04/01/its-official-vaccinated-peopl... > "Our data from the CDC today suggests that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don't get sick, and that it's not just in the clinical trials but it's also in real-world data," CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky told Rachel Maddow on Monday, March 29.
  - yulaow 5y ago
    I admit I don't know the narrative in the US/CDC. For what I understood reading around on various international news networks the idea it would prevent transmission via reducing the viral charge to almost zero was related to the variant to which the current version of the vaccines were built for. The new variants (delta first and omicron in particular) require new updated and targeted vaccines to keep the viral charge so low to keep avoiding transmission. But again, I am no virologist and my understanding is just a sum of what I read around.
  - eli_gottlieb 5y ago
    That's a fairly week post-hoc claim that was oversold in the media. The actual clinical, controlled studies weren't checking for stopping transmission.
    - miles 5y ago
      > That's a fairly week post-hoc claim that was oversold in the media. Besides CDC Director Walensky's claim that the vaccines would prevent transmission, another well-known and trusted figure named Tony Fauci made the same claim: Masks off? Fauci confirms ‘extremely low’ risk of transmission, infection for vaccinated https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/dr-fauci-confirms-extremely-low-risk-of-transmission-and-infection-for-vaccinated-112213061906 https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/dr-fauci-confirms-extreme... > “The risk is extremely low of getting infected, of getting sick, or of transmitting it to anybody else, full stop,” says Dr. Fauci, explaining the new CDC mask guidance for fully vaccinated folks.
res0nat0r 5y ago
> They don't prevent transmission (like we were all told initially) No "real" public official I believe ever said this.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- simonsarris 5y ago
  December 2020: > Fauci Predicts U.S. Could See Signs Of Herd Immunity By Late March Or Early April https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/12/15/946714505/fauci-predicts-u-s-could-see-signs-of-herd-immunity-by-late-march-or-early-april https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/1... > "I would say 50% would have to get vaccinated before you start to see an impact," Fauci said. "But I would say 75 to 85% would have to get vaccinated if you want to have that blanket of herd immunity." Talking about herd immunity doesn't make sense unless the vaccine prevented transmission. Then, May 2021: > Masks off? Fauci confirms ‘extremely low’ risk of transmission, infection for vaccinated https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/dr-fauci-confirms-extremely-low-risk-of-transmission-and-infection-for-vaccinated-112213061906 https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/dr-fauci-confirms-extreme...
  - res0nat0r 5y ago
    Herd immunity != getting vaccinated means you can't ever transmit the virus to anyone else.
belltaco 5y ago
>They don't prevent transmission (like we were all told initially) They do prevent transmission to a certain extent.
- maxk42 5y ago
  How much is "to a certain extent"? Has this been quantified? Because I recall Fauci saying it "100%" prevent hospitalizations and it turns out it was far, far less than 100%.
  - bakuninsbart 5y ago
    Unvaccinated 12-34 year-olds in Washington are • 3 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 12-34 year-olds. • 12 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 12-34 year-olds. Unvaccinated 35-64 year-olds are • 4 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 35-64 year-olds. • 18 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 35-64 year-olds. Unvaccinated 65+ year-olds are • 7 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds. • 13 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ yearolds. • 15 times more likely to die of COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds. https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/data-tables/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/...
    - desine 5y ago
      When everything is multiplied by a fraction of a percent, the result is a bunch of small magnitudes overall. Like 12 times more likely to be hospitalized than fully vaccinated 12-34 year olds? What the latter's rate of hospitalization? Near 0, I assume? This is all just weaponized statistics to generate fear. Or at least, vaccine sales.
      - bakuninsbart 5y ago
        I honestly don't have the strength for this discussion anymore, but it does make a pretty signifcant difference between seeing two thirty-somethings struggling for their lives vs. 20. I don't care about people like you anymore, I just want to protect the people that are actually important to me, which includes multiple people having to work in the ICU, and multiple people who might die if hospital capacities are full.

yulaow 5y ago

The point since the start was to prevent serious cases. In my country the only target value under consideration for intensifying/reducing measures is just ICU occupations in hospital, and this rapid increase of cases, even with lower risk of serious cases compared to delta, is seriously jeopardizing our hospitals (again)

miles 5y ago
> The point since the start was to prevent serious cases. It was sold as preventing transmission: It's official: Vaccinated people don't transmit COVID-19 https://fortune.com/2021/04/01/its-official-vaccinated-people-dont-transmit-covid-19/ https://fortune.com/2021/04/01/its-official-vaccinated-peopl... > "Our data from the CDC today suggests that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don't get sick, and that it's not just in the clinical trials but it's also in real-world data," CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky told Rachel Maddow on Monday, March 29.
- yulaow 5y ago
  I admit I don't know the narrative in the US/CDC. For what I understood reading around on various international news networks the idea it would prevent transmission via reducing the viral charge to almost zero was related to the variant to which the current version of the vaccines were built for. The new variants (delta first and omicron in particular) require new updated and targeted vaccines to keep the viral charge so low to keep avoiding transmission. But again, I am no virologist and my understanding is just a sum of what I read around.
- eli_gottlieb 5y ago
  That's a fairly week post-hoc claim that was oversold in the media. The actual clinical, controlled studies weren't checking for stopping transmission.
  - miles 5y ago
    > That's a fairly week post-hoc claim that was oversold in the media. Besides CDC Director Walensky's claim that the vaccines would prevent transmission, another well-known and trusted figure named Tony Fauci made the same claim: Masks off? Fauci confirms ‘extremely low’ risk of transmission, infection for vaccinated https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/dr-fauci-confirms-extremely-low-risk-of-transmission-and-infection-for-vaccinated-112213061906 https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/dr-fauci-confirms-extreme... > “The risk is extremely low of getting infected, of getting sick, or of transmitting it to anybody else, full stop,” says Dr. Fauci, explaining the new CDC mask guidance for fully vaccinated folks.

res0nat0r 5y ago

> They don't prevent transmission (like we were all told initially) No "real" public official I believe ever said this.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
simonsarris 5y ago
December 2020: > Fauci Predicts U.S. Could See Signs Of Herd Immunity By Late March Or Early April https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/12/15/946714505/fauci-predicts-u-s-could-see-signs-of-herd-immunity-by-late-march-or-early-april https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/1... > "I would say 50% would have to get vaccinated before you start to see an impact," Fauci said. "But I would say 75 to 85% would have to get vaccinated if you want to have that blanket of herd immunity." Talking about herd immunity doesn't make sense unless the vaccine prevented transmission. Then, May 2021: > Masks off? Fauci confirms ‘extremely low’ risk of transmission, infection for vaccinated https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/dr-fauci-confirms-extremely-low-risk-of-transmission-and-infection-for-vaccinated-112213061906 https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/dr-fauci-confirms-extreme...
- res0nat0r 5y ago
  Herd immunity != getting vaccinated means you can't ever transmit the virus to anyone else.

belltaco 5y ago

>They don't prevent transmission (like we were all told initially) They do prevent transmission to a certain extent.

maxk42 5y ago
How much is "to a certain extent"? Has this been quantified? Because I recall Fauci saying it "100%" prevent hospitalizations and it turns out it was far, far less than 100%.
- bakuninsbart 5y ago
  Unvaccinated 12-34 year-olds in Washington are • 3 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 12-34 year-olds. • 12 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 12-34 year-olds. Unvaccinated 35-64 year-olds are • 4 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 35-64 year-olds. • 18 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 35-64 year-olds. Unvaccinated 65+ year-olds are • 7 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds. • 13 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ yearolds. • 15 times more likely to die of COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds. https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/data-tables/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/...
  - desine 5y ago
    When everything is multiplied by a fraction of a percent, the result is a bunch of small magnitudes overall. Like 12 times more likely to be hospitalized than fully vaccinated 12-34 year olds? What the latter's rate of hospitalization? Near 0, I assume? This is all just weaponized statistics to generate fear. Or at least, vaccine sales.
    - bakuninsbart 5y ago
      I honestly don't have the strength for this discussion anymore, but it does make a pretty signifcant difference between seeing two thirty-somethings struggling for their lives vs. 20. I don't care about people like you anymore, I just want to protect the people that are actually important to me, which includes multiple people having to work in the ICU, and multiple people who might die if hospital capacities are full.