4 ms·

> Who's "we" in that sentence? Intelligent people are unlikely to adopt foolish plans, by definition. You're confusing intelligence with wisdom. Intelligent p

by chrsig 5y ago

> Who's "we" in that sentence? Intelligent people are unlikely to adopt foolish plans, by definition. You're confusing intelligence with wisdom. Intelligent people are likely to recognize a plan as foolish. They may or may not have the wisdom to avoid adopting it. Knowledge doesn't necessarily change behavior -- there are many many smart people who've gotten addicted to harmful substances, for example.

Apocryphon 5y ago
Not to mention many of the systemic problems in the world today have been caused by smart people letting their avarice, greed, and other base desires get the better of them.
carapace 5y ago
> You're confusing intelligence with wisdom. Intelligent people are likely to recognize a plan as foolish. They may or may not have the wisdom to avoid adopting it. Well, to a first approximation wisdom is second-order intelligence, intelligence-about-intelligence, eh? Put another way, I see a continuum from mere cunning to intelligence to self-referential intelligence to sublime wisdom. E.g. the Tao Te Ching is (IMO) one of the clearest and greatest written expositions of wisdom, consider chapter seventeen on leaders: With the best kind of leader when the work is complete the people all say "We did it ourselves." Is that not describing hyper-intelligence? Leaders so smart and wise that they achieve their goals without anyone noticing them? In the context we're talking about, the "we" is (again by definition) the smartest (or, if you will, the wisest) minority, at the far end of the bell curve. The idea that idiocracy should be fought with eugenics is itself a layer of the idiocracy, not something that these very intelligent people would credit. > Knowledge doesn't necessarily change behavior -- there are many many smart people who've gotten addicted to harmful substances, for example. I disagree, I think that knowledge (by definition) is that information that makes us capable of changing our behaviour at will. Intelligence is operational. Smart people that become addicts and can't stop are obviously less intelligent than those who avoid it in the first place or who find ways to stop, surely?
- chrsig 5y ago
  > Is that not describing hyper-intelligence? Leaders so smart and wise that they achieve their goals without anyone noticing them? Do you have a definition for hyper-intelligence? > I disagree, I think that knowledge (by definition) is that information that makes us capable of changing our behavior at will. Intelligence is operational. Smart people that become addicts and can't stop are obviously less intelligent than those who avoid it in the first place or who find ways to stop, surely? No, because intelligence and impulse control are separable things.
  - carapace 5y ago
    > Do you have a definition for hyper-intelligence? Trivially, anyone much much smarter than me. :) Hypothetically, take the top N% of the high end of the bell curve, where N is 0.1 or 0.001 or 0.000001 or whatever. But then you have the question of how to survey intelligence? Which brings me to my answer to your second point, > intelligence and impulse control are separable things. A quality called "intelligence" that does not engender impulse control isn't actually intelligence, eh? In other words I would define intelligence precisely as the ability of self-control combined with the ability to effect desired changes in the world. What's the point of "intelligence" that gives no "leverage", especially in the context of some "we" who are supposedly effective enough to institute a world-wide eugenics program?
    - chrsig 5y ago
      > A quality called "intelligence" that does not engender impulse control isn't actually intelligence, eh? I mean, that's pretty dependent on the definition of intelligence. Going off a dictionary definition: > the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills. versus wisdom: > the quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgment; the quality of being wise. That to me sounds like every place you're saying intelligence, you mean wisdom. Redefining intelligence to wisdom isn't a thing, because words have meaning. The relationship being that intelligence makes acquiring wisdom faster. There isn't a strict requirement between the two. > What's the point of "intelligence" that gives no "leverage" Self enrichment/gratification/entertainment.

by chrsig 5y ago

Apocryphon 5y ago

Not to mention many of the systemic problems in the world today have been caused by smart people letting their avarice, greed, and other base desires get the better of them.

carapace 5y ago

> You're confusing intelligence with wisdom. Intelligent people are likely to recognize a plan as foolish. They may or may not have the wisdom to avoid adopting it. Well, to a first approximation wisdom is second-order intelligence, intelligence-about-intelligence, eh? Put another way, I see a continuum from mere cunning to intelligence to self-referential intelligence to sublime wisdom. E.g. the Tao Te Ching is (IMO) one of the clearest and greatest written expositions of wisdom, consider chapter seventeen on leaders: With the best kind of leader when the work is complete the people all say "We did it ourselves." Is that not describing hyper-intelligence? Leaders so smart and wise that they achieve their goals without anyone noticing them? In the context we're talking about, the "we" is (again by definition) the smartest (or, if you will, the wisest) minority, at the far end of the bell curve. The idea that idiocracy should be fought with eugenics is itself a layer of the idiocracy, not something that these very intelligent people would credit. > Knowledge doesn't necessarily change behavior -- there are many many smart people who've gotten addicted to harmful substances, for example. I disagree, I think that knowledge (by definition) is that information that makes us capable of changing our behaviour at will. Intelligence is operational. Smart people that become addicts and can't stop are obviously less intelligent than those who avoid it in the first place or who find ways to stop, surely?

chrsig 5y ago
> Is that not describing hyper-intelligence? Leaders so smart and wise that they achieve their goals without anyone noticing them? Do you have a definition for hyper-intelligence? > I disagree, I think that knowledge (by definition) is that information that makes us capable of changing our behavior at will. Intelligence is operational. Smart people that become addicts and can't stop are obviously less intelligent than those who avoid it in the first place or who find ways to stop, surely? No, because intelligence and impulse control are separable things.
- carapace 5y ago
  > Do you have a definition for hyper-intelligence? Trivially, anyone much much smarter than me. :) Hypothetically, take the top N% of the high end of the bell curve, where N is 0.1 or 0.001 or 0.000001 or whatever. But then you have the question of how to survey intelligence? Which brings me to my answer to your second point, > intelligence and impulse control are separable things. A quality called "intelligence" that does not engender impulse control isn't actually intelligence, eh? In other words I would define intelligence precisely as the ability of self-control combined with the ability to effect desired changes in the world. What's the point of "intelligence" that gives no "leverage", especially in the context of some "we" who are supposedly effective enough to institute a world-wide eugenics program?
  - chrsig 5y ago
    > A quality called "intelligence" that does not engender impulse control isn't actually intelligence, eh? I mean, that's pretty dependent on the definition of intelligence. Going off a dictionary definition: > the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills. versus wisdom: > the quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgment; the quality of being wise. That to me sounds like every place you're saying intelligence, you mean wisdom. Redefining intelligence to wisdom isn't a thing, because words have meaning. The relationship being that intelligence makes acquiring wisdom faster. There isn't a strict requirement between the two. > What's the point of "intelligence" that gives no "leverage" Self enrichment/gratification/entertainment.