2 ms·

> What kind of non-relevant answer is that? >I asked you a polite and to the point question. We're all capable of reading between the lines here. You asked t

> What kind of non-relevant answer is that? >I asked you a polite and to the point question. We're all capable of reading between the lines here. You asked the question because a more snide "tell me you've never lived in NL without telling me you lived in NL" or "yikes" doesn't fly here so you phrase it as a question (just like asking the question wouldn't fly elsewhere where the local norms are to be snide or offensive). I say "no" you use that as justification for saying I have no idea what I'm talking about. I say yes and you assert my experience is not relevant or whip out a No True Scotsman. It's just a bunch of BS rhetoric that serves as a barrier to whatever the actual disagreement and debate is. If my knowledge is so far off base, from lack of experience or otherwise then this should be a short debate. Do you disagree with my analysis on the incentives that cause government policy that makes life marginally more difficult for families to be formed? It appears you disagree with some part of it, so which part and how and why? And for the record I've lived there for months but not in a major urban area and not raising a family. Edit: edited to answer his question.

jacquesm 5y ago
I note that you consistently refuse to answer my simple question. The degree to which you are breaking the HN guidelines with this comment is off the scale, so you probably should re-read those. Sometimes a question is just a question. Ok, so you've lived here, that makes the discussion a lot simpler. If you split up NL into cities, towns and rural then cars have a several major functions: - to travel between cities and towns where public transport coverage is bad - to travel longer distances - to carry larger loads than you can on a bike - to help those with limited personal mobility get around - various emergency services Bikes are - to the Dutch - a way of life. Everybody here has a bike, even the elderly. And with everybody I mean everybody that's is capable of cycling will have a bike (and often more than one). Simply because for the very large majority of your outings it will be the fastest and most practical solution. Society here is quite literally designed around cycling to the point where you can take your bike on the train if you want, and if it's a folding bike you can do so for free. For someone not born here it is obvious that this takes a lot of adjustment. If you are used to having a car at your disposal and using that car for every trip that is too long to walk then obviously it will be frustrating. Because you will find that parking fees are high, that finding parking is next to impossible and that the speeds of cars in towns are as low (or lower!) than cycling. It is mostly a matter of expectations. When I lived in the USA I found it hard to stomach that I could not cycle wherever I wanted. There simply wasn't a safe way to cross certain roads or areas without being in a vehicle. Walking was frowned upon and often unsafe. Both of these are the result of urban planning: the dominant vehicle for NL is the bicycle, the dominant vehicle in the USA is the car. To desire a vehicle for which the environment is not explicitly designed is going to result in impedance mismatch that manifests as frustration. The solution is to go with the flow, and to realize that if millions of people are doing something, then you too can get used to it.
- wing-_-nuts 5y ago
  >Bikes are - to the Dutch - a way of life. Is there a way to find other areas that are similarly bike friendly. In all honesty I have an aversion to moving to a country below sea level given the consequences of climate change we will soon face.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Denmark. China. Parts of Germany, parts of Finland. Probably lots more but those are the ones that I am somewhat familiar with. As for the below the sea level bit: NL is probably one of the few countries that is actually prepared for this, the water management here is second to none. Besides that we also have cities above sea level.
  - screye 5y ago
    Assuming you are American, Somerville MA and Cambridge MA are pretty good for biking and public transport.
  - the-dude 5y ago
    Sea level rise at the Dutch coast has been more or less stable at 2mm/year for the last 120 years or so. No acceleration detected. Our dikes have been recently upgraded and maintained and one of the responsible public workers said he would expect we could handle a 2m rise right now.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      There is a pretty accurate list of 'weak spots' (as in: could not handle a very substantial rise in sea level today) floating around but I just can't seem to find it.

jacquesm 5y ago

I note that you consistently refuse to answer my simple question. The degree to which you are breaking the HN guidelines with this comment is off the scale, so you probably should re-read those. Sometimes a question is just a question. Ok, so you've lived here, that makes the discussion a lot simpler. If you split up NL into cities, towns and rural then cars have a several major functions: - to travel between cities and towns where public transport coverage is bad - to travel longer distances - to carry larger loads than you can on a bike - to help those with limited personal mobility get around - various emergency services Bikes are - to the Dutch - a way of life. Everybody here has a bike, even the elderly. And with everybody I mean everybody that's is capable of cycling will have a bike (and often more than one). Simply because for the very large majority of your outings it will be the fastest and most practical solution. Society here is quite literally designed around cycling to the point where you can take your bike on the train if you want, and if it's a folding bike you can do so for free. For someone not born here it is obvious that this takes a lot of adjustment. If you are used to having a car at your disposal and using that car for every trip that is too long to walk then obviously it will be frustrating. Because you will find that parking fees are high, that finding parking is next to impossible and that the speeds of cars in towns are as low (or lower!) than cycling. It is mostly a matter of expectations. When I lived in the USA I found it hard to stomach that I could not cycle wherever I wanted. There simply wasn't a safe way to cross certain roads or areas without being in a vehicle. Walking was frowned upon and often unsafe. Both of these are the result of urban planning: the dominant vehicle for NL is the bicycle, the dominant vehicle in the USA is the car. To desire a vehicle for which the environment is not explicitly designed is going to result in impedance mismatch that manifests as frustration. The solution is to go with the flow, and to realize that if millions of people are doing something, then you too can get used to it.

wing-_-nuts 5y ago
>Bikes are - to the Dutch - a way of life. Is there a way to find other areas that are similarly bike friendly. In all honesty I have an aversion to moving to a country below sea level given the consequences of climate change we will soon face.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Denmark. China. Parts of Germany, parts of Finland. Probably lots more but those are the ones that I am somewhat familiar with. As for the below the sea level bit: NL is probably one of the few countries that is actually prepared for this, the water management here is second to none. Besides that we also have cities above sea level.
- screye 5y ago
  Assuming you are American, Somerville MA and Cambridge MA are pretty good for biking and public transport.
- the-dude 5y ago
  Sea level rise at the Dutch coast has been more or less stable at 2mm/year for the last 120 years or so. No acceleration detected. Our dikes have been recently upgraded and maintained and one of the responsible public workers said he would expect we could handle a 2m rise right now.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    There is a pretty accurate list of 'weak spots' (as in: could not handle a very substantial rise in sea level today) floating around but I just can't seem to find it.