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> how do you drive your kids to school, or to a holiday destination, etc? The Netherlands is densely populated enough that you can often walk to primary school

> how do you drive your kids to school, or to a holiday destination, etc? The Netherlands is densely populated enough that you can often walk to primary school. Mine is located about 300 meters away, with another primary school about 1 km away. I used to walk by myself without parent supervision. Secondary high (middle school + high school are one single entity here) are fewer in number so that's when kids start needing bikes. Many kids can bike to school in 30m, but I had classmates who lived in some nearby village and biked for an hour. My niece in Amsterdam bikes for about 35-45m depending on school location (they have multiple) and biking speed. She takes public transport (tram and metro) on rainy days but door to door commute time is the same. These days, long bike commutes from villages could probably be more comfortable thanks to electric bikes. No need for car. One of the clients I've worked for had their office at an airport outside Amsterdam. On most days, I travelled by bike in 45m. > holiday destination Holiday destinations tend to be in rural places that are inconvenient to reach by public transport. If younhave a family, then a car is indeed ideal for these destinations. I find Amsterdam's center to be quite crowded if you're trying to raise a family. But smaller cities' centers don't have that much of a problem even for families. I do most of my grocery shopping either by walking or by bike. I only use the car if I have to buy a lot. Though quite a lot of people use their car for weekly grocery shopping.

refurb 5y ago
You’re niece commutes up to 45 min by bike to high school? So potentially 1.5hr per school day?
- TomSwirly 5y ago
  90 minutes of exercise a day, how _terrible_ for the kids. I'm a Briton living in Amsterdam so let me be blunt - those pudgy fat kids you see all over Britain simply do not exist here. I'm 59, I bike everywhere, I've never been in such good shape, though the pandemic has been a drag for this.
  - refurb 5y ago
    I guess? But when I grew up we just walked 10 min to school. 45 min sounds horrible. What if the kid get sick? Parent take a 90 min to pick them up?
    - Vinnl 5y ago
      If you're sick you don't go to school? If you can't cycle, your learning performance won't be great either, and you'll want to avoid infecting other children too.
- QuarterReptile 5y ago
  I think it might be relevant to consider that that 45m ride each way also supports exercise, being outside, probably passing dozens(hundreds?) of stores, and maybe even socializing. It's a totally different beast from being in a car for that duration.
  - kqr 5y ago
    The socialising bit might be confusing to car drivers. On a bicycle, it's very easy to match speeds with someone else and just strike up a conversation. Whenever I'm forced to drive a car, I really hate that the most expressive I can be toward other people in traffic is various lengths of honk or light flashes.
  - FooBarWidget 5y ago
    This. This is why I hate commuting to work by car.
- Muromec 5y ago
  My older one spends around 1h per school day cycling and I don't find a problem with that. When weather is really bad, public transit is an option, but it takes about 10 minutes longer (one way). Add: I don't have neither car no driving license, so it is what it is.
- bo0tzz 5y ago
  This is towards the long end, but certainly not unusual here.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Uphill, both ways. Joking aside: that's not unusual at all here. Kids from Monickendam and Volendam go to school in Amsterdam for instance. That's easily 45 minutes, rain or shine and nobody really complains, it's just normal. The feeling of independence of movement from your parents is more than worth the effort, it also gives you a ton of options after school. Compared to having to be chauffeured everywhere it certainly has its perks.
  - Muromec 5y ago
    Uphill both ways is unironically true, because of bridges. Especially Amstrdam-Rijnkanaal bridge.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      Oh that one is evil. I took a bakfiets up there one day. Up was easy. Downhill: not so much (a trike, twin wheels in front). Super easy to go out of control like that. Drag the brake and pray :)
      - Muromec 5y ago
        Never tried three-wheelers, heard they are difficult to control in general. I was on that bridge like yesterday on a rented cargoroo (two wheels, electric, disk brakes) and it was fine.
        jacquesm 5y ago
        Yes, they are unstable at speed (but more stable when stationary or going slow in a straight line which is why lots of people like them). We still have this bike, 6 years on and it's been a real champ, never a problem (though well maintained), it's done many thousands of KM per year and it still looks like the day it was made modulo some scratches on the wood paneling. Christiania, aluminum frame. That's a nice bike!
  - zachkatz 5y ago
    > kids from Monickendam and Volendam go to school in Amsterdam As someone who just moved to the NL, that's really surprising to me: Do kids from Volendam really go to school in Amsterdam? Are there no schools in Volendam, or is it just kids whose parents want them to go to a "nicer" (or private) school or something?
- em500 5y ago
  That's longer than average, especially for the Netherlands, but it's not unusual. Before COVID, thousands of primary school age children used to commute from Shenzhen to Hong Kong for school every day. That's at least 1.5hr one-way. I know middle school children who commute from New Jersey to New York City, also 1.5hr one-way.

refurb 5y ago

You’re niece commutes up to 45 min by bike to high school? So potentially 1.5hr per school day?

TomSwirly 5y ago
90 minutes of exercise a day, how _terrible_ for the kids. I'm a Briton living in Amsterdam so let me be blunt - those pudgy fat kids you see all over Britain simply do not exist here. I'm 59, I bike everywhere, I've never been in such good shape, though the pandemic has been a drag for this.
- refurb 5y ago
  I guess? But when I grew up we just walked 10 min to school. 45 min sounds horrible. What if the kid get sick? Parent take a 90 min to pick them up?
  - Vinnl 5y ago
    If you're sick you don't go to school? If you can't cycle, your learning performance won't be great either, and you'll want to avoid infecting other children too.
QuarterReptile 5y ago
I think it might be relevant to consider that that 45m ride each way also supports exercise, being outside, probably passing dozens(hundreds?) of stores, and maybe even socializing. It's a totally different beast from being in a car for that duration.
- kqr 5y ago
  The socialising bit might be confusing to car drivers. On a bicycle, it's very easy to match speeds with someone else and just strike up a conversation. Whenever I'm forced to drive a car, I really hate that the most expressive I can be toward other people in traffic is various lengths of honk or light flashes.
- FooBarWidget 5y ago
  This. This is why I hate commuting to work by car.
Muromec 5y ago
My older one spends around 1h per school day cycling and I don't find a problem with that. When weather is really bad, public transit is an option, but it takes about 10 minutes longer (one way). Add: I don't have neither car no driving license, so it is what it is.
bo0tzz 5y ago
This is towards the long end, but certainly not unusual here.
jacquesm 5y ago
Uphill, both ways. Joking aside: that's not unusual at all here. Kids from Monickendam and Volendam go to school in Amsterdam for instance. That's easily 45 minutes, rain or shine and nobody really complains, it's just normal. The feeling of independence of movement from your parents is more than worth the effort, it also gives you a ton of options after school. Compared to having to be chauffeured everywhere it certainly has its perks.
- Muromec 5y ago
  Uphill both ways is unironically true, because of bridges. Especially Amstrdam-Rijnkanaal bridge.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Oh that one is evil. I took a bakfiets up there one day. Up was easy. Downhill: not so much (a trike, twin wheels in front). Super easy to go out of control like that. Drag the brake and pray :)
    - Muromec 5y ago
      Never tried three-wheelers, heard they are difficult to control in general. I was on that bridge like yesterday on a rented cargoroo (two wheels, electric, disk brakes) and it was fine.
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        Yes, they are unstable at speed (but more stable when stationary or going slow in a straight line which is why lots of people like them). We still have this bike, 6 years on and it's been a real champ, never a problem (though well maintained), it's done many thousands of KM per year and it still looks like the day it was made modulo some scratches on the wood paneling. Christiania, aluminum frame. That's a nice bike!
- zachkatz 5y ago
  > kids from Monickendam and Volendam go to school in Amsterdam As someone who just moved to the NL, that's really surprising to me: Do kids from Volendam really go to school in Amsterdam? Are there no schools in Volendam, or is it just kids whose parents want them to go to a "nicer" (or private) school or something?
em500 5y ago
That's longer than average, especially for the Netherlands, but it's not unusual. Before COVID, thousands of primary school age children used to commute from Shenzhen to Hong Kong for school every day. That's at least 1.5hr one-way. I know middle school children who commute from New Jersey to New York City, also 1.5hr one-way.