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That gender as a concept is meaningful only to people who would have liked to be born the opposite sex (ie trans people); for all the other people, sex at birth

That gender as a concept is meaningful only to people who would have liked to be born the opposite sex (ie trans people); for all the other people, sex at birth is what counts. Some of those "other people" pretend to find gender meaningful for political convenience.

falcolas 5y ago
Don’t discount the impact of relationships on our views. Having a good friend who doesn’t conform to the “sex at birth” norm will often move someone over to their “gender is a construct” side.
- curtisblaine 5y ago
  Yeah, but ultimately the vast majority of people are attracted to "sex at birth" and there's not much convincing you can do.
  - falcolas 5y ago
    Attraction, beyond physical looks (which is easily manipulated with makeup) is much more complicated than what’s between your legs.
    - curtisblaine 5y ago
      It is, but what's between your legs plus all the secondary sexual characteristics (which are extremely difficult to disguise / imitate) are a big part of it. Not sufficient, but necessary.
- giardini 5y ago
  OK, so what are the remaining 99% of people to think about this?
  - falcolas 5y ago
    I imagine it depends on their empathy: their ability to understand/validate someone else’s experience, despite not experiencing it themselves.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> That gender as a concept is meaningful only to people who would have liked to be born the opposite sex No, it's not. In fact, “gender is a social construct” is controversial among trans people, who often have identities very tied up in gender (and specifically gender identity) being a innate essential characteristic that just happens to differ from the physical traits on which society has traditionally ascribed gender. “Gender as a social construct” is useful (necessary, even) to explain why gender systems differ between societies in terms of what genders are recognized, what features are the basis of ascribing gender, and the expectations and roles associated with each recognized gender.

falcolas 5y ago

Don’t discount the impact of relationships on our views. Having a good friend who doesn’t conform to the “sex at birth” norm will often move someone over to their “gender is a construct” side.

curtisblaine 5y ago
Yeah, but ultimately the vast majority of people are attracted to "sex at birth" and there's not much convincing you can do.
- falcolas 5y ago
  Attraction, beyond physical looks (which is easily manipulated with makeup) is much more complicated than what’s between your legs.
  - curtisblaine 5y ago
    It is, but what's between your legs plus all the secondary sexual characteristics (which are extremely difficult to disguise / imitate) are a big part of it. Not sufficient, but necessary.
giardini 5y ago
OK, so what are the remaining 99% of people to think about this?
- falcolas 5y ago
  I imagine it depends on their empathy: their ability to understand/validate someone else’s experience, despite not experiencing it themselves.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> That gender as a concept is meaningful only to people who would have liked to be born the opposite sex No, it's not. In fact, “gender is a social construct” is controversial among trans people, who often have identities very tied up in gender (and specifically gender identity) being a innate essential characteristic that just happens to differ from the physical traits on which society has traditionally ascribed gender. “Gender as a social construct” is useful (necessary, even) to explain why gender systems differ between societies in terms of what genders are recognized, what features are the basis of ascribing gender, and the expectations and roles associated with each recognized gender.