5 ms·

Sounds similar to what Apple has done with application privacy settings.

dllthomas 5y ago
"Application ... settings" is (probably?) still ambient authority - the application has the permission to do XYZ so all parts of the application have permission to do XYZ, and it might be possible to confuse a part of the program that isn't supposed to XYZ into doing so. Capabilities is about associating the permission to do a thing with the handle you'd do it through; unrelated parts of the program don't know how to talk about the thing so can't do it.
szszrk 5y ago
I don't know Apple products, but doesn't it sound a lot of like selinux? You explicitly tell the OS which resources can an app use and confine it in that.
autarchprinceps 5y ago
I agree. Especially the macOS version generally prompts you for permission to access the screen, or certain folders/file groups. Though I don't get why some things get a yes/no, and for others it tells you to look it up in the security settings yourself, if you want to enable it. But that's more of a usability complaint. Then again we are so accustomed to just say yes, if a dialog asks us, whether we want to do something, I doubt most people would secure their device much better, if this became the norm. Heck, did you see the recent Linus Tech Tips video on using Linux as a mainline system, including for gaming. Linus deinstalled his entire UI, despite the fact that he had to literally type "I am sure that is what I want to do, although core system elements are being uninstalled" in order to approve it, and he is a fucking techy, leagues above your average user. I think for many people using a device that is more restrictive and doesn't allow everything is sadly necessary.
- danaris 5y ago
  > Though I don't get why some things get a yes/no, and for others it tells you to look it up in the security settings yourself, if you want to enable it I think the former is the system dialog that comes up when the app officially requests the capability, while the latter is an app dialog—which they pop up instead of officially requesting the capability because if you say "no", that setting is saved, and the app can't officially ask again. This way, they get to bug you every single time until you say "yes".
  - autarchprinceps 5y ago
    Hmm, it is designed exactly the same in all applications independent from manufacturer, so I somehow doubt it. I have seen applications that also say it in their own UI, but Apple does display a specific dialog telling you that it was blocked, and if you want to enable it, you need to go to the settings and do so. And it is even document on official Apple pages, so I doubt this is application code: https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/LanguagesUtilities/Conceptual/MacAutomationScriptingGuide/Art/accessibility_alert1_2x.png https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/La... From https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/LanguagesUtilities/Conceptual/MacAutomationScriptingGuide/AutomatetheUserInterface.html https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/La...
mikewarot 5y ago
I can't stress enough how different it can be. Instead of letting programs pick files at random after a dialog box, you have the system return a handle (capability) and enforce the choice. As far as the user is concerned, it works the same.

"Application ... settings" is (probably?) still ambient authority - the application has the permission to do XYZ so all parts of the application have permission to do XYZ, and it might be possible to confuse a part of the program that isn't supposed to XYZ into doing so. Capabilities is about associating the permission to do a thing with the handle you'd do it through; unrelated parts of the program don't know how to talk about the thing so can't do it.

szszrk 5y ago

I don't know Apple products, but doesn't it sound a lot of like selinux? You explicitly tell the OS which resources can an app use and confine it in that.

autarchprinceps 5y ago

I agree. Especially the macOS version generally prompts you for permission to access the screen, or certain folders/file groups. Though I don't get why some things get a yes/no, and for others it tells you to look it up in the security settings yourself, if you want to enable it. But that's more of a usability complaint. Then again we are so accustomed to just say yes, if a dialog asks us, whether we want to do something, I doubt most people would secure their device much better, if this became the norm. Heck, did you see the recent Linus Tech Tips video on using Linux as a mainline system, including for gaming. Linus deinstalled his entire UI, despite the fact that he had to literally type "I am sure that is what I want to do, although core system elements are being uninstalled" in order to approve it, and he is a fucking techy, leagues above your average user. I think for many people using a device that is more restrictive and doesn't allow everything is sadly necessary.

danaris 5y ago
> Though I don't get why some things get a yes/no, and for others it tells you to look it up in the security settings yourself, if you want to enable it I think the former is the system dialog that comes up when the app officially requests the capability, while the latter is an app dialog—which they pop up instead of officially requesting the capability because if you say "no", that setting is saved, and the app can't officially ask again. This way, they get to bug you every single time until you say "yes".
- autarchprinceps 5y ago
  Hmm, it is designed exactly the same in all applications independent from manufacturer, so I somehow doubt it. I have seen applications that also say it in their own UI, but Apple does display a specific dialog telling you that it was blocked, and if you want to enable it, you need to go to the settings and do so. And it is even document on official Apple pages, so I doubt this is application code: https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/LanguagesUtilities/Conceptual/MacAutomationScriptingGuide/Art/accessibility_alert1_2x.png https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/La... From https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/LanguagesUtilities/Conceptual/MacAutomationScriptingGuide/AutomatetheUserInterface.html https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/La...

mikewarot 5y ago

I can't stress enough how different it can be. Instead of letting programs pick files at random after a dialog box, you have the system return a handle (capability) and enforce the choice. As far as the user is concerned, it works the same.