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We will lose out on a generation of great engineers, scientists, and mathematicians because our (US) public school systems are teetering on the brink in multipl

We will lose out on a generation of great engineers, scientists, and mathematicians because our (US) public school systems are teetering on the brink in multiple ways. From underfunded districts and underappreciated teachers, to activists who have infiltrated curriculum-setting (on both sides: from "you can't talk about race in history class" to "there's no right answer to these arithmetic problems, everyone has their own interpretation"), to course schedules that delay algebra until senior year of high school. It's a shame that we as a society seem to care so little about the foundations of an educated and intelligent population.

galdosdi 5y ago
One more terrible factor in addition to the ones you named (and I agree with): ubiquitous smartphones in kids' pockets, filled with intentionally addictive entertainment apps, ruining their attention spans, destroying their ability to focus on or feel bored long enough to be attracted to educational pursuits, or even mildly constructive "unapproved" pursuits like doodling, making paper airplanes, reading non school related material, passing notes etc. The biggest difference between this factor and the others is this one is genuinely new and sudden, a jump discontinuity of a change in the last few years. And there is a strong profit motive for the addictive app makers, and there are incentives for teachers and administrators to turn a blind eye. (Source: worked in a classroom for a semester. It's really, really bad. I encountered kids who would come up to ask a question, then get distracted by their own phones and lose interest before being able to listen to my reply to the question they themselves chose to ask, as if they forgot why they were even standing)
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  Are kids allowed to use their phones during class these days?
  - galdosdi 5y ago
    They might as well be. Making a rule and enforcing it are very different things, and in many schools, enforcing cell phone rules is so impractical that teachers and administrators don't even try very hard anymore. It partly comes back to parents: if parents won't support a rule, it isn't practical for the school to enforce it. Sometimes what the kids are distracted by on their phone is a non-urgent text from their parents! (Not that there is such a thing as an urgent text... that's what phone calls are for, and parents can always call the main office if an urgent message needs to be conveyed)
- bigdict 5y ago
  I struggle with this as an adult, I can't imagine how hard it is for kids to fight the addiction.
  - the_only_law 5y ago
    I didn’t have access to a smartphone growing up, although they were widespread by the time I was a teenager. I ofc have had one as an adult , and while I don’t feel like I’ve become dumber (mostly thanks to aggregating experience), I’m almost certain my ability to do many things, including learn has been significantly throttled.
    - giardini 5y ago
      I still don't carry a smartphone. If I really need a smartphone (and I rarely do) one is always nearby! [Just look for the unresponsive guy/gal standing still in the middle of the parking lot, or traffic, or ...]. But I help my friends and wife with them all the time! After several decades of IT and being on-call 24x7 with one or more devices, most interfaces are easy to decipher. You're likely far better off because you were not brought up in a smartphone environment.
bradlys 5y ago
I’d say it’s less true than ever. We’ve managed to keep hiring engineers at an alarming rate. We put up ridiculous hiring processes because we have such a strong supply - and we have ridiculously high bars to entry. We have an over abundance of people with PhDs who are underemployed. Tbh - I’d say we’re over educated even if it seems like the basic systems are not doing well. People are persevering anyway. What’s not working? We don’t have much funding for academic research that allows people to get paid a reasonable wage that is comparable to private industry (or a change in profession). That’s the only issue and you really just have a capitalistic government to blame for that. If they actually paid well and gave good wages to researchers - we’d have lots more research done. Instead - the research is done for cheap/free by a bunch of shmucks doing their PhDs. The system is working in the capitalists favor.

galdosdi 5y ago

One more terrible factor in addition to the ones you named (and I agree with): ubiquitous smartphones in kids' pockets, filled with intentionally addictive entertainment apps, ruining their attention spans, destroying their ability to focus on or feel bored long enough to be attracted to educational pursuits, or even mildly constructive "unapproved" pursuits like doodling, making paper airplanes, reading non school related material, passing notes etc. The biggest difference between this factor and the others is this one is genuinely new and sudden, a jump discontinuity of a change in the last few years. And there is a strong profit motive for the addictive app makers, and there are incentives for teachers and administrators to turn a blind eye. (Source: worked in a classroom for a semester. It's really, really bad. I encountered kids who would come up to ask a question, then get distracted by their own phones and lose interest before being able to listen to my reply to the question they themselves chose to ask, as if they forgot why they were even standing)

heavyset_go 5y ago
Are kids allowed to use their phones during class these days?
- galdosdi 5y ago
  They might as well be. Making a rule and enforcing it are very different things, and in many schools, enforcing cell phone rules is so impractical that teachers and administrators don't even try very hard anymore. It partly comes back to parents: if parents won't support a rule, it isn't practical for the school to enforce it. Sometimes what the kids are distracted by on their phone is a non-urgent text from their parents! (Not that there is such a thing as an urgent text... that's what phone calls are for, and parents can always call the main office if an urgent message needs to be conveyed)
bigdict 5y ago
I struggle with this as an adult, I can't imagine how hard it is for kids to fight the addiction.
- the_only_law 5y ago
  I didn’t have access to a smartphone growing up, although they were widespread by the time I was a teenager. I ofc have had one as an adult , and while I don’t feel like I’ve become dumber (mostly thanks to aggregating experience), I’m almost certain my ability to do many things, including learn has been significantly throttled.
  - giardini 5y ago
    I still don't carry a smartphone. If I really need a smartphone (and I rarely do) one is always nearby! [Just look for the unresponsive guy/gal standing still in the middle of the parking lot, or traffic, or ...]. But I help my friends and wife with them all the time! After several decades of IT and being on-call 24x7 with one or more devices, most interfaces are easy to decipher. You're likely far better off because you were not brought up in a smartphone environment.

bradlys 5y ago

I’d say it’s less true than ever. We’ve managed to keep hiring engineers at an alarming rate. We put up ridiculous hiring processes because we have such a strong supply - and we have ridiculously high bars to entry. We have an over abundance of people with PhDs who are underemployed. Tbh - I’d say we’re over educated even if it seems like the basic systems are not doing well. People are persevering anyway. What’s not working? We don’t have much funding for academic research that allows people to get paid a reasonable wage that is comparable to private industry (or a change in profession). That’s the only issue and you really just have a capitalistic government to blame for that. If they actually paid well and gave good wages to researchers - we’d have lots more research done. Instead - the research is done for cheap/free by a bunch of shmucks doing their PhDs. The system is working in the capitalists favor.