3 ms·

> What exactly is that that make people feel the need to point out their pronouns? Well simply put they want people to use those pronouns when referring to the

by corobo 5y ago

> What exactly is that that make people feel the need to point out their pronouns? Well simply put they want people to use those pronouns when referring to them What is it in particular that creeps you out bio wise? Are you creeped out by bios that indicate other things too? Preferred tech stacks, "Father, dog owner, CEO"? You clicked on the profile presumably looking for more information about the person and you found the information most (publicly) important to them. Instead of being satisfied having found the information you're giving it the ol' Roger Ebert for some reason For lack of a better phrasing.. why do you care so much what other people put in their bio? Can you not just close the tab or hit back or something?

NylaTheWolf 5y ago
So I'm semi-new to Hacker News, but from a quick google search apparently grayed out comments are due to downvotes. I'm confused as to why this comment is downvoted because this was completely reasonable???
blueflow 5y ago
> What is it in particular that creeps you out bio wise? Didn't i just tried to explain that? That people take gender so seriously. Is it more than just the pronoun and declination class? Because i think, its nothing more, but other people seem to think, gender is more than that. How else could "misgendering" someone even be any kind of offense?
- siland 5y ago
  - corobo 5y ago
    Presumably you're a biologist or doctor, someone with the knowledge and certification to make the claim they're deluded? Psychologist maybe? Personally I think you're just trying to be offensive on your newly green account but if there's anything in there that actually wants to understand please do try to meet with and talk to the people you are diagnosing, it's really hard to hate a person when you know their story If nothing else consider it doesn't cost you a damn thing to be nice to someone. What's the point in tearing someone down? Is this really the person you want to be? It seems so tragic honestly
    - siland 5y ago
      - corobo 5y ago
        In a world where animals are born with two heads, all sorts of fun diseases and deformities can happen, not to mention the whole range of mental issues a person can have.. is it not at least possible in your mind that sometimes there's a scenario that could cause a rift between the mind's software and the biological hardware? These are your opinions without scientific method. We can be nice and call them hypotheses if you want You claim to be a scientist, where's the science?
        siland 5y ago
        I'm not denying that gender dysphoria is a diagnosable condition. Indeed, I referred to its existence twice in my earlier comment. It's clearly a disorder that affects some people, even if the aetiology is currently unknown. But consider what this diagnosis actually means: a strong desire to be the opposite sex. It's not the state of actually being the opposite sex, just a desire to be. This remains the case even if the afflicted subject develops a belief that they are the opposite sex by way of a 'gender identity'.
        pseudalopex 5y ago
        What a gender dysphoria diagnosis actually means is they met 2 of 6 criteria.[1] A strong desire to be the opposite sex is just 1 of them. 2 if you believe gender just means sex. The gender and sex distinction is common even if you think it shouldn't be. It's hard to believe a biologist wouldn't know that. Don't misrepresent what trans people believe. [1] https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphori...
        siland 5y ago
        Nitpicking the diagnostic criteria doesn't refute my main point, which was that desires and beliefs are not the same thing as actually being. When you get down to the biological reality of it, a male with gender dysphoria, or who claims a to have a female 'gender identity', is quite obviously not a woman.
- corobo 5y ago
  You said you were creeped out but as far as I can see you didn't say why it creeped you out, no. Maybe I just have a stronger definition of creeped out than you As for the rest, not everyone is you? Different people have different things that they consider a major part of their being You must have something you'd consider a part of your personality or existence that you'd be offended if someone outright denied. Maybe if a colleague or someone said you weren't a real {whatever your career is}? No reasoning it out, no explanation. You're just not one of them. Start with how that would make you feel and consider a person may feel that way about being misgendered
- danShumway 5y ago
  > How else could "misgendering" someone even be any kind of offense? There's a big oppression angle to this that can't really be ignored or separated out from trans experiences, but I'm going to try to ignore it for just a second. In a world with no transgender discrimination at all, I empathize with not really caring that much? I'm male, I use he/him pronouns, but if someone called me "they" or "she", I really don't think that would register in my brain as a negative thing. I think I'd be pretty OK with that. But what I have found out is that this is very atypical even among most cisgender people I know. And (again, ignoring the oppression angle, which can't be ignored, it is intrinsically tied to how people's identities and preferences form, but...) I have just kind of learned to tolerate that not only do a lot of transgender people care about this, but a lot of people in general seemingly across the entire world seem to care about this. I strongly suspect (and in fact know, because I pay some attention to UK politics and the debates happening there) that a lot of people in Europe who are cisgender appear to care a heck of a lot about what pronouns people use to describe them. I don't think being as agnostic about it as I am is the norm for most people, and I don't think that's wrong or broken, I have things that I care about too. So if someone does want me to use a pronoun that reflects them better, I don't think it's bad that they care about that pronoun being used accurately. It appears to be just kind of an intrinsic thing for many people.

by corobo 5y ago

NylaTheWolf 5y ago

So I'm semi-new to Hacker News, but from a quick google search apparently grayed out comments are due to downvotes. I'm confused as to why this comment is downvoted because this was completely reasonable???

blueflow 5y ago

> What is it in particular that creeps you out bio wise? Didn't i just tried to explain that? That people take gender so seriously. Is it more than just the pronoun and declination class? Because i think, its nothing more, but other people seem to think, gender is more than that. How else could "misgendering" someone even be any kind of offense?

siland 5y ago
- corobo 5y ago
  Presumably you're a biologist or doctor, someone with the knowledge and certification to make the claim they're deluded? Psychologist maybe? Personally I think you're just trying to be offensive on your newly green account but if there's anything in there that actually wants to understand please do try to meet with and talk to the people you are diagnosing, it's really hard to hate a person when you know their story If nothing else consider it doesn't cost you a damn thing to be nice to someone. What's the point in tearing someone down? Is this really the person you want to be? It seems so tragic honestly
  - siland 5y ago
    - corobo 5y ago
      In a world where animals are born with two heads, all sorts of fun diseases and deformities can happen, not to mention the whole range of mental issues a person can have.. is it not at least possible in your mind that sometimes there's a scenario that could cause a rift between the mind's software and the biological hardware? These are your opinions without scientific method. We can be nice and call them hypotheses if you want You claim to be a scientist, where's the science?
      - siland 5y ago
        I'm not denying that gender dysphoria is a diagnosable condition. Indeed, I referred to its existence twice in my earlier comment. It's clearly a disorder that affects some people, even if the aetiology is currently unknown. But consider what this diagnosis actually means: a strong desire to be the opposite sex. It's not the state of actually being the opposite sex, just a desire to be. This remains the case even if the afflicted subject develops a belief that they are the opposite sex by way of a 'gender identity'.
        pseudalopex 5y ago
        What a gender dysphoria diagnosis actually means is they met 2 of 6 criteria.[1] A strong desire to be the opposite sex is just 1 of them. 2 if you believe gender just means sex. The gender and sex distinction is common even if you think it shouldn't be. It's hard to believe a biologist wouldn't know that. Don't misrepresent what trans people believe. [1] https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphori...
        siland 5y ago
        Nitpicking the diagnostic criteria doesn't refute my main point, which was that desires and beliefs are not the same thing as actually being. When you get down to the biological reality of it, a male with gender dysphoria, or who claims a to have a female 'gender identity', is quite obviously not a woman.
corobo 5y ago
You said you were creeped out but as far as I can see you didn't say why it creeped you out, no. Maybe I just have a stronger definition of creeped out than you As for the rest, not everyone is you? Different people have different things that they consider a major part of their being You must have something you'd consider a part of your personality or existence that you'd be offended if someone outright denied. Maybe if a colleague or someone said you weren't a real {whatever your career is}? No reasoning it out, no explanation. You're just not one of them. Start with how that would make you feel and consider a person may feel that way about being misgendered
danShumway 5y ago
> How else could "misgendering" someone even be any kind of offense? There's a big oppression angle to this that can't really be ignored or separated out from trans experiences, but I'm going to try to ignore it for just a second. In a world with no transgender discrimination at all, I empathize with not really caring that much? I'm male, I use he/him pronouns, but if someone called me "they" or "she", I really don't think that would register in my brain as a negative thing. I think I'd be pretty OK with that. But what I have found out is that this is very atypical even among most cisgender people I know. And (again, ignoring the oppression angle, which can't be ignored, it is intrinsically tied to how people's identities and preferences form, but...) I have just kind of learned to tolerate that not only do a lot of transgender people care about this, but a lot of people in general seemingly across the entire world seem to care about this. I strongly suspect (and in fact know, because I pay some attention to UK politics and the debates happening there) that a lot of people in Europe who are cisgender appear to care a heck of a lot about what pronouns people use to describe them. I don't think being as agnostic about it as I am is the norm for most people, and I don't think that's wrong or broken, I have things that I care about too. So if someone does want me to use a pronoun that reflects them better, I don't think it's bad that they care about that pronoun being used accurately. It appears to be just kind of an intrinsic thing for many people.