13 ms·

Are there people using bots to play this? I played in one of the 100 player matches and the top players were just ridiculous.

zuudo 5y ago
Nope, some of the best players in the world hang out in Quick Play, and they're simply built different.
- girvo 5y ago
  I mean, there are bots too. https://github.com/misterhat/tetrio-bot https://github.com/misterhat/tetrio-bot
  - zuudo 5y ago
    There certainly are, but something like this would immediately get picked up and banned. It's hard to cheat without being blatantly obvious.
skillissue 5y ago
hsiang_jih_kueh 5y ago
mix of muscle memory, strats and changing default settings (DAS/ARR etc) to allow you to play faster
pimlottc 5y ago
Haven’t tried multiplayer yet but there are definitely bots on the solo play leaderboard. The fastest time for getting 40 lines in blitz mode is 15 seconds. It’s not humanly possible.
- gudetamwa 5y ago
- PetitPrince 5y ago
  You'd be surprised how deep the skill hole can go. Looks at this 20-ish seconds for 40L mode with hand cam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OFq31lek2g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OFq31lek2g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJDz4-pr9J4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJDz4-pr9J4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Azm-hbVTRJk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Azm-hbVTRJk
  - pimlottc 5y ago
    Huh. Seems like I may be in the wrong here. I've been watching some of the NES Tetris videos recently and they don't even go this fast so I thought it wasn't possible. I guess that's that's the different between a "sprint" and a "marathon" though? I can barely even register the next piece at that speed, I wonder if these players are mostly just visualizing the board in their mind. Doesn't seem possible to be looking at both the upcoming piece and the playfield at this kind of speed.
    - stevelosh 5y ago
      NES tetris and modern tetris are VERY different games. NES tetris didn't have hard drop, hold, SRS, 7-bag randomizer, or multiple piece previews, all of which are in all modern guideline tetris games and can help you go faster. Tetr.io and Jstris go even further than guideline tetris: there's no line clear delay and you can set DAS/ARR[1] to anything you want, which lets you go even faster. The bottleneck isn't the keyboard input. Pretty much all top players use ARR 0 and 2-step finesse[2] (or something close to it), which means you can position any piece where you want in 2 keystrokes at most, plus 1 more to hard drop it. And certain stacking styles (e.g. 6-3 stacking[3]) lend themselves well to not requiring the full 2 keystrokes pretty often, so in practice you end up with ~2.6 keys per piece instead of 3. A typical DAS for a pro player (e.g. someone like Firestorm) might be somewhere around 70ms. So if we roughly estimate 100ms average per piece (70ms to DAS, with some extra for the sometimes-needed rotation and hard drop), that would be ~10 pieces per second, which is well over the ~6.5 PPS in the record sprints. The physical pressing of the keys also isn't really a bottleneck. Keys per second in the top sprints is ~16. I just mashed my movement/rotation keys into `time | wc -c` and got ~35 KPS after 2 beers, and I don't even have a particularly gaming-focused keyboard. The bottleneck also isn't reaction times. Someone might trot out a hastily-googled 250ms as a typical human reaction time and claim 100ms per piece isn't possible, but good players aren't reacting to each piece as it comes -- they're using the previews (and hold) to react to the piece that's coming 4-5 steps in the future, which is closer to a second away. It's really just about how fast you can process the upcoming queue and still stack cleanly. [1]: https://harddrop.com/wiki/DAS https://harddrop.com/wiki/DAS [2]: https://four.lol/mid-game/finesse https://four.lol/mid-game/finesse [3]: https://harddrop.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2985 https://harddrop.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2985
- roozbeh18 5y ago
  Damn
- stevelosh 5y ago
  WR for 40L is 14.9 by Reset[1] last I heard. 15 is definitely humanly possible. [1]: https://twitter.com/jstrisgame/status/1424548438096683011 https://twitter.com/jstrisgame/status/1424548438096683011
gudetamwa 5y ago
no they just are really good it’s insane how good you can get in so little time tbh
mmh0000 5y ago
Yeah... I played a few rounds and after getting my butt kicked incredibly fast, (side note: I love Tetris and am the household champion in comp. games), I thought there was something fishy going on. Yep, bots galore. A simple Google search turned up an open source bot on github[1], meaning there are probably better bots hidden within the community. Ugh. So many online games today are ruined by cheaters. [1] https://github.com/misterhat/tetrio-bot https://github.com/misterhat/tetrio-bot
- osk______ 5y ago
  Dev of the game here, its anticheat is quite sophisticated (esp. for a webgame), trying to run a bot like this at any significant speed would get you promptly automatically banned. There's not really many times this happens - rather, Quick Play just tends to have a few really good players in it. For example: all the plays on the leaderboards for the "40 LINES" and "BLITZ" modes are ensured correct and fair. They're prominent community figures, most of the time. If you're not convinced, there's a liveplay[1] of a top player playing it at their top speed. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJDz4-pr9J4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJDz4-pr9J4
  - dktbs 5y ago
    This game plays so well, I really like it. I've sucked at TGM and nullpomino for years and I'm looking forward to sucking at this now. Thanks for posting the video, it can be hard to believe how good some people are at tetris.
- TulliusCicero 5y ago
  > Yeah... I played a few rounds and after getting my butt kicked incredibly fast, (side note: I love Tetris and am the household champion in comp. games), I thought there was something fishy going on. Being good in your household means basically nothing for an online game, especially one like Tetris. Games like this, the skill ceiling is insanely high, if you haven't seen high level play before then you're probably drastically underestimating what humans are capable of. Other competitive game genres are like this too. Compared to 'good in my family' players for FPS games, top tier pros will basically look like they're running an aimbot. I'm big into Starcraft and the pros for that game look similarly insane when you watch from their perspective, with how fast they are at context switching.

zuudo 5y ago

Nope, some of the best players in the world hang out in Quick Play, and they're simply built different.

girvo 5y ago
I mean, there are bots too. https://github.com/misterhat/tetrio-bot https://github.com/misterhat/tetrio-bot
- zuudo 5y ago
  There certainly are, but something like this would immediately get picked up and banned. It's hard to cheat without being blatantly obvious.

skillissue 5y ago

hsiang_jih_kueh 5y ago

mix of muscle memory, strats and changing default settings (DAS/ARR etc) to allow you to play faster

pimlottc 5y ago

Haven’t tried multiplayer yet but there are definitely bots on the solo play leaderboard. The fastest time for getting 40 lines in blitz mode is 15 seconds. It’s not humanly possible.

gudetamwa 5y ago
PetitPrince 5y ago
You'd be surprised how deep the skill hole can go. Looks at this 20-ish seconds for 40L mode with hand cam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OFq31lek2g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OFq31lek2g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJDz4-pr9J4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJDz4-pr9J4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Azm-hbVTRJk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Azm-hbVTRJk
- pimlottc 5y ago
  Huh. Seems like I may be in the wrong here. I've been watching some of the NES Tetris videos recently and they don't even go this fast so I thought it wasn't possible. I guess that's that's the different between a "sprint" and a "marathon" though? I can barely even register the next piece at that speed, I wonder if these players are mostly just visualizing the board in their mind. Doesn't seem possible to be looking at both the upcoming piece and the playfield at this kind of speed.
  - stevelosh 5y ago
    NES tetris and modern tetris are VERY different games. NES tetris didn't have hard drop, hold, SRS, 7-bag randomizer, or multiple piece previews, all of which are in all modern guideline tetris games and can help you go faster. Tetr.io and Jstris go even further than guideline tetris: there's no line clear delay and you can set DAS/ARR[1] to anything you want, which lets you go even faster. The bottleneck isn't the keyboard input. Pretty much all top players use ARR 0 and 2-step finesse[2] (or something close to it), which means you can position any piece where you want in 2 keystrokes at most, plus 1 more to hard drop it. And certain stacking styles (e.g. 6-3 stacking[3]) lend themselves well to not requiring the full 2 keystrokes pretty often, so in practice you end up with ~2.6 keys per piece instead of 3. A typical DAS for a pro player (e.g. someone like Firestorm) might be somewhere around 70ms. So if we roughly estimate 100ms average per piece (70ms to DAS, with some extra for the sometimes-needed rotation and hard drop), that would be ~10 pieces per second, which is well over the ~6.5 PPS in the record sprints. The physical pressing of the keys also isn't really a bottleneck. Keys per second in the top sprints is ~16. I just mashed my movement/rotation keys into `time | wc -c` and got ~35 KPS after 2 beers, and I don't even have a particularly gaming-focused keyboard. The bottleneck also isn't reaction times. Someone might trot out a hastily-googled 250ms as a typical human reaction time and claim 100ms per piece isn't possible, but good players aren't reacting to each piece as it comes -- they're using the previews (and hold) to react to the piece that's coming 4-5 steps in the future, which is closer to a second away. It's really just about how fast you can process the upcoming queue and still stack cleanly. [1]: https://harddrop.com/wiki/DAS https://harddrop.com/wiki/DAS [2]: https://four.lol/mid-game/finesse https://four.lol/mid-game/finesse [3]: https://harddrop.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2985 https://harddrop.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2985
roozbeh18 5y ago
Damn
stevelosh 5y ago
WR for 40L is 14.9 by Reset[1] last I heard. 15 is definitely humanly possible. [1]: https://twitter.com/jstrisgame/status/1424548438096683011 https://twitter.com/jstrisgame/status/1424548438096683011

gudetamwa 5y ago

no they just are really good it’s insane how good you can get in so little time tbh

mmh0000 5y ago

Yeah... I played a few rounds and after getting my butt kicked incredibly fast, (side note: I love Tetris and am the household champion in comp. games), I thought there was something fishy going on. Yep, bots galore. A simple Google search turned up an open source bot on github[1], meaning there are probably better bots hidden within the community. Ugh. So many online games today are ruined by cheaters. [1] https://github.com/misterhat/tetrio-bot https://github.com/misterhat/tetrio-bot

osk______ 5y ago
Dev of the game here, its anticheat is quite sophisticated (esp. for a webgame), trying to run a bot like this at any significant speed would get you promptly automatically banned. There's not really many times this happens - rather, Quick Play just tends to have a few really good players in it. For example: all the plays on the leaderboards for the "40 LINES" and "BLITZ" modes are ensured correct and fair. They're prominent community figures, most of the time. If you're not convinced, there's a liveplay[1] of a top player playing it at their top speed. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJDz4-pr9J4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJDz4-pr9J4
- dktbs 5y ago
  This game plays so well, I really like it. I've sucked at TGM and nullpomino for years and I'm looking forward to sucking at this now. Thanks for posting the video, it can be hard to believe how good some people are at tetris.
TulliusCicero 5y ago
> Yeah... I played a few rounds and after getting my butt kicked incredibly fast, (side note: I love Tetris and am the household champion in comp. games), I thought there was something fishy going on. Being good in your household means basically nothing for an online game, especially one like Tetris. Games like this, the skill ceiling is insanely high, if you haven't seen high level play before then you're probably drastically underestimating what humans are capable of. Other competitive game genres are like this too. Compared to 'good in my family' players for FPS games, top tier pros will basically look like they're running an aimbot. I'm big into Starcraft and the pros for that game look similarly insane when you watch from their perspective, with how fast they are at context switching.