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Claim: Susan Rosenberg is a convicted terrorist who has sat on the board of directors of Thousand Currents, an organization which handles fundraising for the Bl

Claim: Susan Rosenberg is a convicted terrorist who has sat on the board of directors of Thousand Currents, an organization which handles fundraising for the Black Lives Matter Global Network. Verdict: mixture What's Undetermined In the absence of a single, universally-agreed definition of "terrorism," it is a matter of subjective determination as to whether the actions for which Rosenberg was convicted and imprisoned — possession of weapons and hundreds of pounds of explosives — should be described as acts of "domestic terrorism." (she was sentenced to 58 years and pardoned by Bill Clinton after serving 16) https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/blm-terrorist-rosenberg/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/blm-terrorist-rosenberg/

WD-42 5y ago
That is an interesting one. Snopes gave it mixed because technically she was never convicted of terrorism by any court, thus isn't actually a "convicted terrorist". In this case a mixed verdict does seem fair as the lack of nuance in the claim doesn't match the reality of the situation.
Fnoord 5y ago
There is, for sure, a definition of terrorism (by Alex P. Schmid) agreed upon by academics. It has 12 subchecks though; not simple (unfortunately circumstances require it to be complex as-is). If I were to fact-check this (say as journalist) I would reach out to academics, asking them their take on the matter by presenting them facts (and, perhaps, uncertainties). Apart from that, usually, when it comes to democratic countries with a working objective justice system, I would say we can trust verdicts unless proven otherwise. A presidential pardon could be such, I don't know. I do know the case of Scooter Libby, where presidential pardon was unjustified (Valerie Plame case) but as an outsider of USA I don't know if that is common, and how common (I can imagine its an abused political tool).
- luckylion 5y ago
  Is a presidential pardon considered a verdict and part of the justice system? I've always assumed that it's merely removing the punishment (which is what the executive branch deals with), but has no influence on the legal status, i.e. if you're convicted of fraud, sent to prison and get a pardon, you're still a convicted fraudster, but you're released from prison.
  - Fnoord 5y ago
    I don't know, it seems like it overrules the verdict (which only the president can do) but I am not sure. Its worth noting that initially, Libby specifically wasn't pardoned but his sentence was commuted. > After a failed appeal, President Bush commuted Libby's sentence of 30 months in federal prison, leaving the other parts of his sentence intact. As a consequence of his conviction in United States v. Libby, Libby's license to practice law was suspended until being reinstated in 2016. President Donald Trump fully pardoned Libby on April 13, 2018. [1] Which is rare: > After Libby was denied bail during his appeal process on July 2, 2007, Bush commuted Libby's 30-month federal prison sentence, calling it "excessive", but he did not change the other parts of the sentence and their conditions. That presidential commutation left in place the felony conviction, the $250,000 fine, and the terms of probation. Some have criticized the move, as presidential commutations are rarely issued, but when granted they have generally occurred after the convicted person has already served a substantial portion of his or her sentence: "We can't find any cases, certainly in the last half-century, where the president commuted a sentence before it had even started to be served," said former Justice Department pardon attorney Margaret Colgate Love. [..] [1] There's 2 movies which involve the Plame affair, Fair Game and Vice. Both well worth it, though its more a side thing in Vice while its the main subject in Fair Game. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scooter_Libby https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scooter_Libby

WD-42 5y ago

That is an interesting one. Snopes gave it mixed because technically she was never convicted of terrorism by any court, thus isn't actually a "convicted terrorist". In this case a mixed verdict does seem fair as the lack of nuance in the claim doesn't match the reality of the situation.

Fnoord 5y ago

There is, for sure, a definition of terrorism (by Alex P. Schmid) agreed upon by academics. It has 12 subchecks though; not simple (unfortunately circumstances require it to be complex as-is). If I were to fact-check this (say as journalist) I would reach out to academics, asking them their take on the matter by presenting them facts (and, perhaps, uncertainties). Apart from that, usually, when it comes to democratic countries with a working objective justice system, I would say we can trust verdicts unless proven otherwise. A presidential pardon could be such, I don't know. I do know the case of Scooter Libby, where presidential pardon was unjustified (Valerie Plame case) but as an outsider of USA I don't know if that is common, and how common (I can imagine its an abused political tool).

luckylion 5y ago
Is a presidential pardon considered a verdict and part of the justice system? I've always assumed that it's merely removing the punishment (which is what the executive branch deals with), but has no influence on the legal status, i.e. if you're convicted of fraud, sent to prison and get a pardon, you're still a convicted fraudster, but you're released from prison.
- Fnoord 5y ago
  I don't know, it seems like it overrules the verdict (which only the president can do) but I am not sure. Its worth noting that initially, Libby specifically wasn't pardoned but his sentence was commuted. > After a failed appeal, President Bush commuted Libby's sentence of 30 months in federal prison, leaving the other parts of his sentence intact. As a consequence of his conviction in United States v. Libby, Libby's license to practice law was suspended until being reinstated in 2016. President Donald Trump fully pardoned Libby on April 13, 2018. [1] Which is rare: > After Libby was denied bail during his appeal process on July 2, 2007, Bush commuted Libby's 30-month federal prison sentence, calling it "excessive", but he did not change the other parts of the sentence and their conditions. That presidential commutation left in place the felony conviction, the $250,000 fine, and the terms of probation. Some have criticized the move, as presidential commutations are rarely issued, but when granted they have generally occurred after the convicted person has already served a substantial portion of his or her sentence: "We can't find any cases, certainly in the last half-century, where the president commuted a sentence before it had even started to be served," said former Justice Department pardon attorney Margaret Colgate Love. [..] [1] There's 2 movies which involve the Plame affair, Fair Game and Vice. Both well worth it, though its more a side thing in Vice while its the main subject in Fair Game. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scooter_Libby https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scooter_Libby