3 ms·

Web3 is federated, not decentralized. The distinction is significant.

verdverm 5y ago
I like this distinction, but I will note that not all web3 is federated or decentralized. It has been become more of a marketing word for projects which both do and don't adhere to the foundations.
- dathinab 5y ago
  That's a problem I see, too. A lot of things are far less decentralized/federated in practice then they claim to be. It's not uncommon that some of the points why something is federated or even decentralized are only there in hypothetical scenarios (let's say in theory) which just don't happen in practice. Not because they technically can't, but because there are no marked dynamics insensitiveing it (probably more the opposite).
  - verdverm 5y ago
    Many of the protocol level 2 scaling like rollups are far more centrally controlled than they lead you to believe
jagger27 5y ago
Can you give a specific definition of federated in this context? To me, federated means that autonomous entities can talk to each other if they agree on a protocol. E.g. making a phone call between different carriers, or, uhh, the internet.
- austincheney 5y ago
  Here are the definitions from an older comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29640046 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29640046
  - antoniuschan99 5y ago
    Great explaination. I like “web3 is distributed not decentralized” For the federated and decentralized info: Is it like Sia coin and file coin are operated on its own protocol/nodes. Both are decentralized but it’s federated in the sense that sia and filecoin don’t talk to each other?
jagger27 5y ago
> decentralized - disparate nodes communicating directly using agreed upon conventions. There is no centrally managed network. Think in terms of snail mail, IPv6, or phone numbers. This could be as simple as people using an agreed upon application to abstract away the transmission concerns but that application does not route traffic through a third party server. This definition really doesn’t sit right with me. IPv6 and phone numbers have central authorities. I can’t just configure my cellphone to receive calls from a number that I wasn’t issued by my carrier. Nor can my carrier issue me a number from another country’s number pool. To me, the phone network is a great example of a federated network. IPv6 is similar. I think snail mail is probably the best example of something that is truly decentralized. Sure, there are authorities that chop up plots of land and give them names and numbers, but no one prevents me from asking a friend to put a letter in the mailbox of 123 Main St. Please correct me if I’m missing some key semantic argument(s).

I like this distinction, but I will note that not all web3 is federated or decentralized. It has been become more of a marketing word for projects which both do and don't adhere to the foundations.

dathinab 5y ago
That's a problem I see, too. A lot of things are far less decentralized/federated in practice then they claim to be. It's not uncommon that some of the points why something is federated or even decentralized are only there in hypothetical scenarios (let's say in theory) which just don't happen in practice. Not because they technically can't, but because there are no marked dynamics insensitiveing it (probably more the opposite).
- verdverm 5y ago
  Many of the protocol level 2 scaling like rollups are far more centrally controlled than they lead you to believe

jagger27 5y ago

Can you give a specific definition of federated in this context? To me, federated means that autonomous entities can talk to each other if they agree on a protocol. E.g. making a phone call between different carriers, or, uhh, the internet.

austincheney 5y ago
Here are the definitions from an older comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29640046 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29640046
- antoniuschan99 5y ago
  Great explaination. I like “web3 is distributed not decentralized” For the federated and decentralized info: Is it like Sia coin and file coin are operated on its own protocol/nodes. Both are decentralized but it’s federated in the sense that sia and filecoin don’t talk to each other?

jagger27 5y ago

> decentralized - disparate nodes communicating directly using agreed upon conventions. There is no centrally managed network. Think in terms of snail mail, IPv6, or phone numbers. This could be as simple as people using an agreed upon application to abstract away the transmission concerns but that application does not route traffic through a third party server. This definition really doesn’t sit right with me. IPv6 and phone numbers have central authorities. I can’t just configure my cellphone to receive calls from a number that I wasn’t issued by my carrier. Nor can my carrier issue me a number from another country’s number pool. To me, the phone network is a great example of a federated network. IPv6 is similar. I think snail mail is probably the best example of something that is truly decentralized. Sure, there are authorities that chop up plots of land and give them names and numbers, but no one prevents me from asking a friend to put a letter in the mailbox of 123 Main St. Please correct me if I’m missing some key semantic argument(s).