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To the folks saying that the "IRS doesn't care about the crime, they just want the money" I think you have it backwards. This whole system is set up as a trap f

To the folks saying that the "IRS doesn't care about the crime, they just want the money" I think you have it backwards. This whole system is set up as a trap for criminals. The idea is that they don't want you to pay so that they can prosecute you for tax fraud, which in many cases is a much easier charge to prove. For instance, why prove theft of property when you can instead demonstrate that you own the property and didn't pay taxes for it? If a crime is committed the state will get their cut in the end anyways. They have to make it possible for you to pay without incriminating yourself so that you can be charged for not doing so. This is one tax they would rather you not pay.

kova12 5y ago
Which is missing the point of taxation. It was supposedly set up so that people pay their fair share. Now it is used to entrap people
- xboxnolifes 5y ago
  Yeah. It's entrapping people who stole the wealth, not their fair share.
- arcticbull 5y ago
  It’s explicitly entrapment because you can pay the tax without incriminating yourself - as you would with any other business income. The fact criminals are now committing two crimes at once doesn’t make it entrapment :)
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    explicitly not* entrapment, lol, sorry.
masklinn 5y ago
> To the folks saying that the "IRS doesn't care about the crime, they just want the money" I think you have it backwards. This whole system is set up as a trap for criminals. Nonsense. The IRS is not a mandatory reporter by design. The IRS indeed does not care about any crime other than tax-related ones, not only is it not their job, it's their not-job, as in, applying any sort of moral or legal consideration outside of tax-related ones will get employees in trouble.
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Yes that’s the point I’m making. They hope you do not pay so they can charge you later.
  - masklinn 5y ago
    > Yes that’s the point I’m making. And that point is wrong. The IRS just wants you to pay your taxes, period, end of the story.
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      Again, I disagree. This box is here so you can be charged with a crime or have their proceeds seized. They do not expect anyone to actually pay it because who in their right mind pays taxes on stolen goods? Nobody. Exactly the same number of people as pay for narcotics tax stamps. [1] The only people buying them are stamp collectors. > In a report discussing a (failed) 2008 proposal by New York’s then-governor Elliot Spitzer to institute a drug tax stamp program in his state, the New York Times noted that “almost no dealers” actually buy the stamps, adding, “the vast majority of revenues from the tax are collected after law enforcement officials seize the drugs.” [1] If drug dealers aren't buying drug tax stamps, shoplifters aren't reporting their stolen goods on their 1040. In fact, this NYT article spells it out. > “It’s really about cutting the drug dealers off at the knees,” said Ms. Smith of the tax administrators group. “It kind of goes back to the Al Capone model.” Proving tax avoidance is much easier than proving a drug crime, she said, so the tax laws help the authorities keep seized drug money even when a suspect accused of dealing drugs goes free. [2] [1] https://theoutline.com/post/4173/drug-dealers-are-supposed-to-pay-taxes-too https://theoutline.com/post/4173/drug-dealers-are-supposed-t... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/24/nyregion/24drugs.html https://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/24/nyregion/24drugs.html

kova12 5y ago

Which is missing the point of taxation. It was supposedly set up so that people pay their fair share. Now it is used to entrap people

xboxnolifes 5y ago
Yeah. It's entrapping people who stole the wealth, not their fair share.
arcticbull 5y ago
It’s explicitly entrapment because you can pay the tax without incriminating yourself - as you would with any other business income. The fact criminals are now committing two crimes at once doesn’t make it entrapment :)
- arcticbull 5y ago
  explicitly not* entrapment, lol, sorry.

masklinn 5y ago

> To the folks saying that the "IRS doesn't care about the crime, they just want the money" I think you have it backwards. This whole system is set up as a trap for criminals. Nonsense. The IRS is not a mandatory reporter by design. The IRS indeed does not care about any crime other than tax-related ones, not only is it not their job, it's their not-job, as in, applying any sort of moral or legal consideration outside of tax-related ones will get employees in trouble.

arcticbull 5y ago
Yes that’s the point I’m making. They hope you do not pay so they can charge you later.
- masklinn 5y ago
  > Yes that’s the point I’m making. And that point is wrong. The IRS just wants you to pay your taxes, period, end of the story.
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    Again, I disagree. This box is here so you can be charged with a crime or have their proceeds seized. They do not expect anyone to actually pay it because who in their right mind pays taxes on stolen goods? Nobody. Exactly the same number of people as pay for narcotics tax stamps. [1] The only people buying them are stamp collectors. > In a report discussing a (failed) 2008 proposal by New York’s then-governor Elliot Spitzer to institute a drug tax stamp program in his state, the New York Times noted that “almost no dealers” actually buy the stamps, adding, “the vast majority of revenues from the tax are collected after law enforcement officials seize the drugs.” [1] If drug dealers aren't buying drug tax stamps, shoplifters aren't reporting their stolen goods on their 1040. In fact, this NYT article spells it out. > “It’s really about cutting the drug dealers off at the knees,” said Ms. Smith of the tax administrators group. “It kind of goes back to the Al Capone model.” Proving tax avoidance is much easier than proving a drug crime, she said, so the tax laws help the authorities keep seized drug money even when a suspect accused of dealing drugs goes free. [2] [1] https://theoutline.com/post/4173/drug-dealers-are-supposed-to-pay-taxes-too https://theoutline.com/post/4173/drug-dealers-are-supposed-t... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/24/nyregion/24drugs.html https://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/24/nyregion/24drugs.html