4 ms·

One of the reasons I laugh when people talk about "escaping" to TX. We are basically burning books, controlling women's bodily autonomy, blame green energy for

by vb6sp6 5y ago

One of the reasons I laugh when people talk about "escaping" to TX. We are basically burning books, controlling women's bodily autonomy, blame green energy for the failure of natural gas plants during cold snaps (and then make citizens foot the bill for the next 30 years while they made record profits). And when a fertilizer plant exploded due to improper storage and lax regulations, the governor went on a publicity tour bragging about the lax regulations (15 people died, mostly first responders) And this news report from 2006 is a real gem: 'Peggy Fruge told me she'd welcome blacks to her neighborhood. Then she said this: "I don't mind being friends with them, talking and stuff like that, but as far as mingling and eating with them, all that kind of stuff, that's where I draw the line."' We do need people to come to texas to flip it blue. Just know this is a backwards place in many ways.

adamrezich 5y ago
>We do need people to come to texas to flip it blue. Just know this is a backwards place in many ways. putting aside the specific political affiliations mentioned here, I find this sentiment generally offensive. what could possibly compel you to encourage people of a certain political persuasion to move to a specific region so as to topple the existing, different-than-yours, popular political persuasion? if you live in a Republic of fifty States, why can't you and everyone that agrees with you politically find another state to take your political values to? what makes you think that your perspective on how things should be should matter more than the millions of people already living there, such that your ideal worldview should replace the existing popular one in a specific state, via interstate mass migration? obviously there's nothing wrong with people who live in a given state having different political values compared to the prevailing local political values and trying to change things locally themselves and/or with the assistance of other like-minded locals. but when you advocate for mass migrations of people to come and change things...
- unethical_ban 5y ago
  It's a value statement. You can't put away the specific political affiliations in this discussion. Examples: "Putting aside the Uyghur genocide and one party system of China, who are you to say China should change any of their behavior?" "Putting aside banning Christianity and subjugating women to be objects of their family and murdering journalists and activists in their embassy, who are we to wish Saudi Arabia would change their political behavior?" I'm a lifelong Texan, and it's possible I will remain such. The Texas GOP is an embarrassment to enlightenment. As I've stated elsewhere in the thread, I wish we had more political parties so that "reasonable conservatives" had a party that incorporated good faith debate and values in their platform rather than hatred of the "other" and performative outrage. That's why we need Texas to flip. If you're a conservative or otherwise a GOP voter and live in Texas, I'd be interested in what drives you to that decision, though it may be off-topic for HN.
  - adamrezich 5y ago
    you didn't even read what I wrote, or, if you did, you didn't actually respond to it, and instead chose to try to connect entirely unrelated points. as I said, there is nothing wrong with trying to change things in state and local politics, it's the best part of our political system and woefully underappreciated by most. the point of my above post, which I repeated like three times within it to the point where I thought I was being overly-redundant, was that encouraging mass migrations of people in order to achieve your political goals, in a Republic of fifty States, is ridiculous. if everyone played that game, things would not end well for anyone. I was going to refrain from commenting on this directly, but if I "can't put away the specific political affiliations in this discussion," then, well: I've only ever seen this from "the left"/"liberals"/the Democratic party, and I find this interesting.
    - unethical_ban 5y ago
      Ah, I see. Well, I disagree with your implication that by being a republic of fifty states, that one state does not affect the other. See, critically, the Senate. You don't see the GOP mobilizing voters to flip states red so much, because the GOP is already over-represented in the Senate. It's unlikely that liberals will move to Wyoming in numbers sufficient to flip it. But the demographics and economy and geography of Texas do seem to suggest that becoming a swing state is a possibility in the near future. So to reiterate my answer to your question "Why move to other states instead of being happy to change your own?" - Because we are one country, and because until the Senate as an institution is dissolved or reformed beyond recognition, the political affiliations of each state matter to the others. Extra credit commentary: We aren't functionally a republic of fifty semi-independent states. In many critical issues that require federal answers (climate change, welfare, healthcare, and military) we are one nation afflicted with a potentially lethal vestige of our Constitution: The Senate. The miscommunication between you and me(and the other person) is that you don't see (or at least, acknowledge) how different states' politics affect each other's, whereas I and the other person took it as a given that they do.
      - adamrezich 5y ago
- vb6sp6 5y ago
  > what could possibly compel you to encourage people of a certain political persuasion to move to a specific region so as to topple the existing, different-than-yours, popular political persuasion My daughters' human rights as women supersede the misogynist wishes of Texas politicians > why can't you and everyone that agrees with you politically find another state to take your political values to I was raised to stand and fight for my rights. I don't need carpetbagging coastal elites like the Bushes telling me what texans want. > what makes you think that your perspective on how things should be should matter more than the millions of people already living there, such that your ideal worldview should replace the existing popular one in a specific state, via interstate mass migration? Texas has more democrats than republicans. My views align with the majority. Texas republicans are so terrified of democrats winning, they made it illegal to vote straight party line on ballots. So I feel pretty god damn good telling people about the problems in this state and how they can be fixed.
  - adamrezich 5y ago
    like your sibling poster, you didn't actually engage with the point I made repeatedly above, which is the mass-migration-to-achieve-political-change part. do you believe that this concept is generally justifiable and everyone should be encouraging it everywhere to further their own goals of political change? or just this one specific instance?
    - vb6sp6 5y ago
      1. I'm not sure my original comment was "encouraging mass migration" 2. People are free to move anywhere they like for any reason 3. If people from Connecticut can move here and change our politics, I see no problem with others moving here to change it back. 4. If corrupt politicians can rig the game in their favor, getting more legitimate voters might be the only ethical way to counteract such brazen attacks on our republic 5. This isn't the "gotcha" you think it is
      - josephcsible 5y ago
        > 1. I'm not sure my original comment was "encouraging mass migration" You literally said "We do need people to come to texas to flip it blue."
freedomben 5y ago
I think it's funny too when people talk about "escaping" to Texas, but you have to remember that different people are oppressed differently by the same laws. If you earn a high amount of income per year, you will be oppressed differently by tax rates in one area then you will another. Just like if you're a woman with an unwanted pregnancy, you are oppressed differently by laws in one state than another, even though someone not in your situation may not oppressed at all. For some people Texas is a lot more free. For others it isn't. We can pretend we are just a collective, but when it actually comes down to it most people make decisions out of self interest (individuals) rather than collective interest. The expression "one man's trash is another man's treasure" feels appropriate here too.
dashundchen 5y ago
I have little doubt if it weren't for the decision in Lawerence v. Texas in 2003(!), Texas would still be enforcing anti-gay laws against consenting adults.

by vb6sp6 5y ago

adamrezich 5y ago

>We do need people to come to texas to flip it blue. Just know this is a backwards place in many ways. putting aside the specific political affiliations mentioned here, I find this sentiment generally offensive. what could possibly compel you to encourage people of a certain political persuasion to move to a specific region so as to topple the existing, different-than-yours, popular political persuasion? if you live in a Republic of fifty States, why can't you and everyone that agrees with you politically find another state to take your political values to? what makes you think that your perspective on how things should be should matter more than the millions of people already living there, such that your ideal worldview should replace the existing popular one in a specific state, via interstate mass migration? obviously there's nothing wrong with people who live in a given state having different political values compared to the prevailing local political values and trying to change things locally themselves and/or with the assistance of other like-minded locals. but when you advocate for mass migrations of people to come and change things...

unethical_ban 5y ago
It's a value statement. You can't put away the specific political affiliations in this discussion. Examples: "Putting aside the Uyghur genocide and one party system of China, who are you to say China should change any of their behavior?" "Putting aside banning Christianity and subjugating women to be objects of their family and murdering journalists and activists in their embassy, who are we to wish Saudi Arabia would change their political behavior?" I'm a lifelong Texan, and it's possible I will remain such. The Texas GOP is an embarrassment to enlightenment. As I've stated elsewhere in the thread, I wish we had more political parties so that "reasonable conservatives" had a party that incorporated good faith debate and values in their platform rather than hatred of the "other" and performative outrage. That's why we need Texas to flip. If you're a conservative or otherwise a GOP voter and live in Texas, I'd be interested in what drives you to that decision, though it may be off-topic for HN.
- adamrezich 5y ago
  you didn't even read what I wrote, or, if you did, you didn't actually respond to it, and instead chose to try to connect entirely unrelated points. as I said, there is nothing wrong with trying to change things in state and local politics, it's the best part of our political system and woefully underappreciated by most. the point of my above post, which I repeated like three times within it to the point where I thought I was being overly-redundant, was that encouraging mass migrations of people in order to achieve your political goals, in a Republic of fifty States, is ridiculous. if everyone played that game, things would not end well for anyone. I was going to refrain from commenting on this directly, but if I "can't put away the specific political affiliations in this discussion," then, well: I've only ever seen this from "the left"/"liberals"/the Democratic party, and I find this interesting.
  - unethical_ban 5y ago
    Ah, I see. Well, I disagree with your implication that by being a republic of fifty states, that one state does not affect the other. See, critically, the Senate. You don't see the GOP mobilizing voters to flip states red so much, because the GOP is already over-represented in the Senate. It's unlikely that liberals will move to Wyoming in numbers sufficient to flip it. But the demographics and economy and geography of Texas do seem to suggest that becoming a swing state is a possibility in the near future. So to reiterate my answer to your question "Why move to other states instead of being happy to change your own?" - Because we are one country, and because until the Senate as an institution is dissolved or reformed beyond recognition, the political affiliations of each state matter to the others. Extra credit commentary: We aren't functionally a republic of fifty semi-independent states. In many critical issues that require federal answers (climate change, welfare, healthcare, and military) we are one nation afflicted with a potentially lethal vestige of our Constitution: The Senate. The miscommunication between you and me(and the other person) is that you don't see (or at least, acknowledge) how different states' politics affect each other's, whereas I and the other person took it as a given that they do.
    - adamrezich 5y ago
vb6sp6 5y ago
> what could possibly compel you to encourage people of a certain political persuasion to move to a specific region so as to topple the existing, different-than-yours, popular political persuasion My daughters' human rights as women supersede the misogynist wishes of Texas politicians > why can't you and everyone that agrees with you politically find another state to take your political values to I was raised to stand and fight for my rights. I don't need carpetbagging coastal elites like the Bushes telling me what texans want. > what makes you think that your perspective on how things should be should matter more than the millions of people already living there, such that your ideal worldview should replace the existing popular one in a specific state, via interstate mass migration? Texas has more democrats than republicans. My views align with the majority. Texas republicans are so terrified of democrats winning, they made it illegal to vote straight party line on ballots. So I feel pretty god damn good telling people about the problems in this state and how they can be fixed.
- adamrezich 5y ago
  like your sibling poster, you didn't actually engage with the point I made repeatedly above, which is the mass-migration-to-achieve-political-change part. do you believe that this concept is generally justifiable and everyone should be encouraging it everywhere to further their own goals of political change? or just this one specific instance?
  - vb6sp6 5y ago
    1. I'm not sure my original comment was "encouraging mass migration" 2. People are free to move anywhere they like for any reason 3. If people from Connecticut can move here and change our politics, I see no problem with others moving here to change it back. 4. If corrupt politicians can rig the game in their favor, getting more legitimate voters might be the only ethical way to counteract such brazen attacks on our republic 5. This isn't the "gotcha" you think it is
    - josephcsible 5y ago
      > 1. I'm not sure my original comment was "encouraging mass migration" You literally said "We do need people to come to texas to flip it blue."

freedomben 5y ago

I think it's funny too when people talk about "escaping" to Texas, but you have to remember that different people are oppressed differently by the same laws. If you earn a high amount of income per year, you will be oppressed differently by tax rates in one area then you will another. Just like if you're a woman with an unwanted pregnancy, you are oppressed differently by laws in one state than another, even though someone not in your situation may not oppressed at all. For some people Texas is a lot more free. For others it isn't. We can pretend we are just a collective, but when it actually comes down to it most people make decisions out of self interest (individuals) rather than collective interest. The expression "one man's trash is another man's treasure" feels appropriate here too.

dashundchen 5y ago

I have little doubt if it weren't for the decision in Lawerence v. Texas in 2003(!), Texas would still be enforcing anti-gay laws against consenting adults.