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> Why does anyone think it's OK to pay less on money you made with money you have? If you know this you may think everybody knows this but a lot of people don'

by hnbad 5y ago

> Why does anyone think it's OK to pay less on money you made with money you have? If you know this you may think everybody knows this but a lot of people don't and find it highly unintuitive, so I'm going to spell it out: In a very broad sense there are two definitions of "justice" and people will think of one or the other as obviously correct. On the one hand you have people who think justice means that everyone can take what they need and give what they can. These people usually think that humans are cooperative by nature and are intrinsically motivated to do good by others as long as they aren't taken advantage of, i.e. as long as everyone else also gives as much as they can and only takes what they need. On the other hand you have people who think justice means that everyone gets what they deserve. These people usually think that humans are competitive by nature and are intrinsically motivated to take advantage of others and need to be kept in their place as defined by the hierarchy they view as natural and self-evident. You seem to be part of the former group. The people who think "it's OK to pay less on money you made with money you have" are part of the latter. Neither of the two views is "wrong" in a meaningful way, they are just fundamentally incompatible when it comes to pushing for what they see as "good" or "just".

DarylZero 5y ago
Not a very useful framework at all, more of a caricature. Big problem with the economy is that it rewards zero-sum leeches rather than compensate the sacrifice of labor. And the superwealthy are always people who figured out or inherited a way to be parasites.
- hnbad 5y ago
  > Not a very useful framework at all, more of a caricature. What an odd sentence to be followed by describing the extremely rich as "leeches" and "parasites". Sarcasm aside, I think the problem with your analysis is that it doesn't account for people who don't benefit from the system being extremely invested in maintaining it, especially those who understand that they have no realistic chances of coming out on top. There are a lot of hierarchical mindsets that can be deconstructed given the right exposure and sufficient time, but the belief in the necessity, inevitability and moral good of hierarchies themselves is extremely difficult to unlearn and can be found in most parts of the political spectrum (though of course being overrepresented in some groups, e.g. Evangelical Christian conservatives). Most people therefore take some hierarchies for granted while being in disbelief that anyone could take the ones they reject seriously. You can believe in absolute meritocracy without believing in "race realism" for example.
  - DarylZero 5y ago
    > What an odd sentence to be followed by describing the extremely rich as "leeches" and "parasites". Do you deny the existence of human-human parasitism? > I think the problem with your analysis is that it doesn't account for people who don't benefit from the system being extremely invested in maintaining it I don't see how that is a problem with, or even a part of, "my analysis." > hierarchical mindsets Hierarchy isn't the same thing as economic parasitism; it's a prerequisite of it. Really having some difficulty connecting your comment to mine. I don't get the talk about hierarchy-in-general. Hierarchies justify themselves either by not allowing parasitism, or else by denying and covering up its existence.
- DarylZero 5y ago
  Main problem with capitalist ideology is that it's just self-interested parasitism denialism.

by hnbad 5y ago

DarylZero 5y ago

Not a very useful framework at all, more of a caricature. Big problem with the economy is that it rewards zero-sum leeches rather than compensate the sacrifice of labor. And the superwealthy are always people who figured out or inherited a way to be parasites.

hnbad 5y ago
> Not a very useful framework at all, more of a caricature. What an odd sentence to be followed by describing the extremely rich as "leeches" and "parasites". Sarcasm aside, I think the problem with your analysis is that it doesn't account for people who don't benefit from the system being extremely invested in maintaining it, especially those who understand that they have no realistic chances of coming out on top. There are a lot of hierarchical mindsets that can be deconstructed given the right exposure and sufficient time, but the belief in the necessity, inevitability and moral good of hierarchies themselves is extremely difficult to unlearn and can be found in most parts of the political spectrum (though of course being overrepresented in some groups, e.g. Evangelical Christian conservatives). Most people therefore take some hierarchies for granted while being in disbelief that anyone could take the ones they reject seriously. You can believe in absolute meritocracy without believing in "race realism" for example.
- DarylZero 5y ago
  > What an odd sentence to be followed by describing the extremely rich as "leeches" and "parasites". Do you deny the existence of human-human parasitism? > I think the problem with your analysis is that it doesn't account for people who don't benefit from the system being extremely invested in maintaining it I don't see how that is a problem with, or even a part of, "my analysis." > hierarchical mindsets Hierarchy isn't the same thing as economic parasitism; it's a prerequisite of it. Really having some difficulty connecting your comment to mine. I don't get the talk about hierarchy-in-general. Hierarchies justify themselves either by not allowing parasitism, or else by denying and covering up its existence.
DarylZero 5y ago
Main problem with capitalist ideology is that it's just self-interested parasitism denialism.