4 ms·
It does seem that perhaps parts of the book are more mature than what should be on the shelves of middle school library (although that could be taken out of con
by j_walter 5y ago
It does seem that perhaps parts of the book are more mature than what should be on the shelves of middle school library (although that could be taken out of context because I haven't read the book). I'm not sure why people are up in arms that parents feel like they should have some say in what their kids are being taught or what access they have to specific material. They aren't 'banning the book' so much as saying it's not appropriate for kids of a certain age. This isn't like Nazi Germany where books were not allowed to be owned or sold...and it certainly isn't because the author's race or religion.
- etchalon 5y agoThe idea "parents should have a say in what their children are taught" sounds well enough, until you consider the conflicts and overlaps that type of argument leads to.
- j_walter 5y agoIs there much overlap when discussing a book in the middle school library that talks about dreaming of sexual assault? That seems to be the issue at hand here. What about if those libraries had movies and they allowed rated R movies in middle schools? Would that be acceptable...or would it be censorship?
- etchalon 5y agoIt's a public institution. "Censorship" isn't likely the right word, but broad, public access to culture is exactly why libraries exist. The entire "Rating" system for movies is absurd, inconsistent, and deeply flawed as it is.
- j_walter 5y agoSure and it's still at the public library. This isn't a public library where parents take their kids and approve of the books they are getting. This is a middle school library where books are curated to the audience of middle schoolers. Same reason there isn't porn mags at middle school libraries... Do you feel super violent video games should be accessible by young kids as well?
- etchalon 5y agoYes. I believe violent video games should be available to children, with their acquisition dependent on parental consent. Which is literally how it works. If some parents don't want their children reading certain books, those parents can limit their access. At my middle school, due to religious parents, your library card could be flagged such that the librarian wouldn't let you check out books on specific topics. Behold. The books were available to all, but could not be acquired by all.
- j_walter 5y agoThat's the point here...this book is available to middle schoolers without parental consent. And video games are available to children if their parents purchase them...the same as kids seeing rated R movies if accompanied by an adult. People aren't outraged by violent video games or the newest rated R movie because society has setup a consent system...that's not the case in most school libraries so the parents have no oversight.
- etchalon 5y agoThe solution isn't to lobby or approve of the book's removal. It's to lobby and approve of parental consent measures.
- dabbledash 5y agoIf your conclusion from that is that it’s ok for the school to enforce one group’s values on the children of parents who disagree, then I don’t think you can have a principled objection to the “banning” of books. Sometimes you eat the bear… Personally, I would look for solutions that maximize the chances of everybody getting what they want. Maybe parents can sign a waiver for their kids to get certain books, maybe this is all an argument for school choice. Just because government funds the schools doesn’t mean we have to put parents in this zero sum position where they’re fighting over who gets to present their values to the other side’s kids. Personally, I think it’s good for kids to be presented with a lot of different perspectives. I’ve read several of the books on these lists since they started going around and haven’t found one I think is inappropriate for a high schooler to choose to read. But I wonder how many books raising explicit concerns about trans issues are stocked in these libraries? If they stock How To Be An Antiracist, do they have books that are critical of that? Also, I think it would be helpful if the people defending these books focused on a substantive defense of the content instead of trying to invalidate the opinions of their critics based on identity characteristics.
- etchalon 5y agoMy middle school had a "parental override" of some sort that parents could use to deny their children access to certain books of certain topics. Worked great. In terms of "but is the library stocking enough books on conservative views", who knows what that even means. Is there a book out there that serves as a sufficient counterpoint to Roots? Does a library have to offer The Turner Diaries if they're going to stock Dawn?
- dabbledash 5y agoI think I gave some pretty specific example areas, but to get even more granular: I wonder if they will stock McWhorter’s “Woke Racism” or Abigail Shrier’s “Irreversable Damage.” As to the question “what about books I think are really bad?” I don’t see how that’s much different than what these parents are asking. And personally, I would expect high school libraries to have Lenin’s “What is to be done?” and Hitler’s “Mein Kampf.” I wonder how many do?
- lostlogin 5y agoWould that logic be applied to the bible? It has rape, murder and violence.
- j_walter 5y agoYes. We don't allow public schools to require reading the bible...for different reasons obviously, but it still isn't being forced on kids.