4 ms·

Lame... Zuck can pay them $3M a year if they're really "top" engineers. They should defect. What would be news is giving that kind of bonus RSUs to the rank an

Lame... Zuck can pay them $3M a year if they're really "top" engineers. They should defect. What would be news is giving that kind of bonus RSUs to the rank and file. And oh yes downvote the truth. Can't have Meta's salary ladder getting out there.

arcticbull 5y ago
That's not Meta's salary ladder. [1] I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, and maybe you're referring to a discretionary equity grant (explicitly not on the ladder) or folks who have been there a long time vesting equity (but that can happen anywhere with equity appreciation - including very much at Apple). Staff engineers at Meta get like $500/yr, and principal engineers something in the $750-$1M range. However, we're talking top 1% of just the engineers at the company. [1] https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Google,Facebook,Microsoft&track=Software%20Engineer https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Google,Facebook,Microsoft&tr...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- varelse 5y ago
  We are talking about supposed "top" people who are critical hires here. Such offers go directly to Mark Zuckerberg and he has to approve them personally. And it was $3M in order to beat Google when someone I know got one of those offers but again I will eat all your delicious downvotes because that's not true, that's impossible (tm). You're right about fungibles at each level though. But this article is about top people right?
  - endisneigh 5y ago
    Do you have any proof for your claims?
    - varelse 5y ago
      By all means demand proof that the meritocracy is really an arbitrary aristocracy and a party to which you are not invited. That'll go really well I'm sure...
  - wikibob 5y ago
    > Such offers go directly to Mark Zuckerberg and he has to approve them personally This is absolutely incorrect. Offers above the band have to be approved by a comp committee/VP. It’s quite a common process especially since number have gone up.
    - varelse 5y ago
      Was this the same kind of true in 2017? Because that's not how it was portrayed to the person getting the offer. Also going out of my way not to give away too much information unless you vindictive little s___s retaliate against the person in question. I also know that you didn't contradict my $3M figure. Hmmm...
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    > You're right about fungibles at each level though. But this article is about top people right? Meta's entire philosophy is based around the fungibility of their workforce, including their top folks. An E6 is top ~7-10% of most companies, an E7 is top 3%-ish. Within those ranks they're all fungible. Now if you're talking E8 or E9 then maybe, but those folks are like, 10 out of 30,000. I strongly suspect Apple was giving the $180K/4y to the fungible E6/E7s not the non-fungible E8/E9s - those folks are already well compensated. I do agree with peer comment @wikibob. Those almost certainly went to comp committee. Zucc runs a trillion dollar company, he's got more important things to deal with than a $3M offer - 0.0003% of the company. VP approval is far more likely. Even in 2017.
- wikibob 5y ago
  > Staff engineers at Meta get like $500/yr This is incorrect and out of date by a significant margin. Levels.fyi is a low-biased sample. People with top comp do not post it. Talk to industry friends, numbers have gone up.
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    Numbers for new hires or people whose equity appreciated? A new hire E6 will make like 0.75-1.2 top end over 4 years in equity and cash is between 200-300 + bonus. I have recent data. Sure 500 is on the low end but it’s nowhere close to $3M a year for a new hire E6.
- ido 5y ago
  What's the highest level engineering title/level you can get that a "normal" (i.e. not some famous brand-name/top 1%-er people) engineer can expect to get there?
  - throwaway928473 5y ago
    There are no titles as individual engineers at Meta. Everyone is software engineer/production engineer/etc. There's an expectation to reach level 5 within a set timeframe (~3y) so we should expect a "normal" engineer to be capable of this. Level 6 isn't unattainable for someone with experience and enough smarts to know how to spend their time wisely (unless you're an absolute genius you will need to spend time improving others, doing interviews, etc). Level 7+ takes a lot of commitment, focus, and talent.
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    E5 is considered a terminal level, E6 is generally going to be pretty all-consuming of your life and lifestyle. If you're ok with that, E6 is an option. Keep in mind these levels are going to be much easier to attain at Facebook than Instagram.
- throwaway928473 5y ago
  This is the comment that matters in the other thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29717842 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29717842 > Meanwhile, Meta gives >$1M in discretionary equity to top performers to prevent them from leaving. A $1M grant pretty much any time in the past is vesting for significantly more now. Unless this article has a very different definition of "top engineer" Apple pays top staff much less than competitors.
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    I suggest you look at Apple's stock chart. It has dramatically outperformed FB on a 5-year horizon (520% for AAPL, 200% for FB). [1] 5 years ago, an FB grant would have had to be 2.5X greater to match an AAPL grant today. Discretionary equity grants are just that - discretionary. Staff engineers are already top ~7% of a company's engineers, and principal engineers closer to top ~3%. These folks are already top performers. Discretionary equity grants are not something one should ever count on at FB and I wouldn't say they're for "top" performers but rather solid folks who lucked into specific circumstances. You cannot make one happen just by being good. I'm fairly confident that Apple has a similar program for folks who create outsize value. It's really difficult to compare these discretionary programs across companies and I would very much hesitate to draw conclusions from a few data points here on HN. Let's not conflate new hires with tenured folks, equity appreciation for what the company offered at the time and discretionary equity grants for anything other than one-offs someone can never shoot for and make happen by force of will alone. [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/chart/AAPL#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-- https://finance.yahoo.com/chart/AAPL#eyJpbnRlcnZhbCI6IndlZWs...

arcticbull 5y ago

That's not Meta's salary ladder. [1] I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, and maybe you're referring to a discretionary equity grant (explicitly not on the ladder) or folks who have been there a long time vesting equity (but that can happen anywhere with equity appreciation - including very much at Apple). Staff engineers at Meta get like $500/yr, and principal engineers something in the $750-$1M range. However, we're talking top 1% of just the engineers at the company. [1] https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Google,Facebook,Microsoft&track=Software%20Engineer https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Google,Facebook,Microsoft&tr...

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
varelse 5y ago
We are talking about supposed "top" people who are critical hires here. Such offers go directly to Mark Zuckerberg and he has to approve them personally. And it was $3M in order to beat Google when someone I know got one of those offers but again I will eat all your delicious downvotes because that's not true, that's impossible (tm). You're right about fungibles at each level though. But this article is about top people right?
- endisneigh 5y ago
  Do you have any proof for your claims?
  - varelse 5y ago
    By all means demand proof that the meritocracy is really an arbitrary aristocracy and a party to which you are not invited. That'll go really well I'm sure...
- wikibob 5y ago
  > Such offers go directly to Mark Zuckerberg and he has to approve them personally This is absolutely incorrect. Offers above the band have to be approved by a comp committee/VP. It’s quite a common process especially since number have gone up.
  - varelse 5y ago
    Was this the same kind of true in 2017? Because that's not how it was portrayed to the person getting the offer. Also going out of my way not to give away too much information unless you vindictive little s___s retaliate against the person in question. I also know that you didn't contradict my $3M figure. Hmmm...
- arcticbull 5y ago
  > You're right about fungibles at each level though. But this article is about top people right? Meta's entire philosophy is based around the fungibility of their workforce, including their top folks. An E6 is top ~7-10% of most companies, an E7 is top 3%-ish. Within those ranks they're all fungible. Now if you're talking E8 or E9 then maybe, but those folks are like, 10 out of 30,000. I strongly suspect Apple was giving the $180K/4y to the fungible E6/E7s not the non-fungible E8/E9s - those folks are already well compensated. I do agree with peer comment @wikibob. Those almost certainly went to comp committee. Zucc runs a trillion dollar company, he's got more important things to deal with than a $3M offer - 0.0003% of the company. VP approval is far more likely. Even in 2017.
wikibob 5y ago
> Staff engineers at Meta get like $500/yr This is incorrect and out of date by a significant margin. Levels.fyi is a low-biased sample. People with top comp do not post it. Talk to industry friends, numbers have gone up.
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Numbers for new hires or people whose equity appreciated? A new hire E6 will make like 0.75-1.2 top end over 4 years in equity and cash is between 200-300 + bonus. I have recent data. Sure 500 is on the low end but it’s nowhere close to $3M a year for a new hire E6.
ido 5y ago
What's the highest level engineering title/level you can get that a "normal" (i.e. not some famous brand-name/top 1%-er people) engineer can expect to get there?
- throwaway928473 5y ago
  There are no titles as individual engineers at Meta. Everyone is software engineer/production engineer/etc. There's an expectation to reach level 5 within a set timeframe (~3y) so we should expect a "normal" engineer to be capable of this. Level 6 isn't unattainable for someone with experience and enough smarts to know how to spend their time wisely (unless you're an absolute genius you will need to spend time improving others, doing interviews, etc). Level 7+ takes a lot of commitment, focus, and talent.
- arcticbull 5y ago
  E5 is considered a terminal level, E6 is generally going to be pretty all-consuming of your life and lifestyle. If you're ok with that, E6 is an option. Keep in mind these levels are going to be much easier to attain at Facebook than Instagram.
throwaway928473 5y ago
This is the comment that matters in the other thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29717842 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29717842 > Meanwhile, Meta gives >$1M in discretionary equity to top performers to prevent them from leaving. A $1M grant pretty much any time in the past is vesting for significantly more now. Unless this article has a very different definition of "top engineer" Apple pays top staff much less than competitors.
- arcticbull 5y ago
  I suggest you look at Apple's stock chart. It has dramatically outperformed FB on a 5-year horizon (520% for AAPL, 200% for FB). [1] 5 years ago, an FB grant would have had to be 2.5X greater to match an AAPL grant today. Discretionary equity grants are just that - discretionary. Staff engineers are already top ~7% of a company's engineers, and principal engineers closer to top ~3%. These folks are already top performers. Discretionary equity grants are not something one should ever count on at FB and I wouldn't say they're for "top" performers but rather solid folks who lucked into specific circumstances. You cannot make one happen just by being good. I'm fairly confident that Apple has a similar program for folks who create outsize value. It's really difficult to compare these discretionary programs across companies and I would very much hesitate to draw conclusions from a few data points here on HN. Let's not conflate new hires with tenured folks, equity appreciation for what the company offered at the time and discretionary equity grants for anything other than one-offs someone can never shoot for and make happen by force of will alone. [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/chart/AAPL#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-- https://finance.yahoo.com/chart/AAPL#eyJpbnRlcnZhbCI6IndlZWs...