5 ms·

Emacs is complex enough that learning it and elisp si comparable to learning linux and bash. I mean it has package and process management, logs and everything.

Emacs is complex enough that learning it and elisp si comparable to learning linux and bash. I mean it has package and process management, logs and everything. As a new emacs convert after 20 years of vim I will try one day to start from scratch for learning purposes. But just like I would not use LFS for work I would not use vanila emacs either. I use debian distro for linux and doom for emacs.

tptacek 5y ago
You can get a long, long, long way into Emacs without even a faint understanding of elisp. Lots of people get into Emacs because they want an extremely programmable editor, but most people get into it because they can draft off the programming that other people do.
jacobsenscott 5y ago
I'm sure doom and spacemacs are great, but the idea that vanilla emacs is just too hard to use isn't true. Doom and spacemacs are just layers of complexity on top of a very simple concept - install and configure some packages. Using this template you can see there is no black magic there and how easy it is to add packages. You don't need to know any elisp for that. I've been using emacs for years and probably couldn't write a "hello world" in elisp. Configuring packages can be done in the configuration GUI, or else it is just setting some variables - I think I've only ever used 3 eslip functions - (setq), (add-to-list) and (add-hook). Honestly the hardest part of emacs is finding which packages are quality and worth installing. This is where I find doom/spacemacs/prelude emacs useful. I browse their repos every now and then to see what packages are worth trying out - and install them with the built in `package-install` command.
- ilammy 5y ago
  Arch and Ubuntu are just layers of complexity on top of a very simple concept – install and configure some packages. apt and nix are just layers of complexity on top of a very simple concept – copy and edit some files. Files and directories are just layers of complexity on top of a very simple concept – bytes arranged in blocks for persistent storage. You get the idea. One needs choose where to draw their own personal abstraction layer line.
  - jacobsenscott 5y ago
    Sure, but the layers you list there significantly simplify those tasks. I'm not sure spacemacs/doom/etc significantly simplify using emacs. They are an alternate abstraction of roughly equal complexity.

tptacek 5y ago

You can get a long, long, long way into Emacs without even a faint understanding of elisp. Lots of people get into Emacs because they want an extremely programmable editor, but most people get into it because they can draft off the programming that other people do.

jacobsenscott 5y ago

I'm sure doom and spacemacs are great, but the idea that vanilla emacs is just too hard to use isn't true. Doom and spacemacs are just layers of complexity on top of a very simple concept - install and configure some packages. Using this template you can see there is no black magic there and how easy it is to add packages. You don't need to know any elisp for that. I've been using emacs for years and probably couldn't write a "hello world" in elisp. Configuring packages can be done in the configuration GUI, or else it is just setting some variables - I think I've only ever used 3 eslip functions - (setq), (add-to-list) and (add-hook). Honestly the hardest part of emacs is finding which packages are quality and worth installing. This is where I find doom/spacemacs/prelude emacs useful. I browse their repos every now and then to see what packages are worth trying out - and install them with the built in `package-install` command.

ilammy 5y ago
Arch and Ubuntu are just layers of complexity on top of a very simple concept – install and configure some packages. apt and nix are just layers of complexity on top of a very simple concept – copy and edit some files. Files and directories are just layers of complexity on top of a very simple concept – bytes arranged in blocks for persistent storage. You get the idea. One needs choose where to draw their own personal abstraction layer line.
- jacobsenscott 5y ago
  Sure, but the layers you list there significantly simplify those tasks. I'm not sure spacemacs/doom/etc significantly simplify using emacs. They are an alternate abstraction of roughly equal complexity.