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Every day since Windows 11's release, Microsoft is alienating people and indirectly making desktop Linux the better option.

antattack 5y ago
Microsoft is also embracing Linux and Open Source. The endgame is Tivoization.
- syshum 5y ago
  Do they though really... Microsoft Linux contribution is almost completely around making run better on azure or wsl not making Linux itself better. For open source they are attempting to control the mind share with dotnet, vscode, GitHub aka embrace phase We have started seeing signs of the extended phase in all 3 projects We all know what phase 3 of eee is
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Android and ChromeOS, Google got there first. Azure Sphere OS is also based on Linux kernel, not only cloud stuff. Another non Windows OS is Azure RTOS.
    - syshum 5y ago
      The whataboutism on Google is not really even worth responding to but pointing on another evil company is also abusing open source .... ok. Google has been openly hostile GPL for decades. As to the other 2 projects, I am not sure how this refutes my statements, which is Microsoft linux contributions are about making their commercial offerings better, and are not useful to anyone outside of those Commercial Offering (Azure and WSL) So how does pointing to Azure RTOS, and Azure Sphere refute that claim?
      - pjmlp 5y ago
        It doesn't refute the claim, only extends the space of non-Windows offerings from Microsoft. The point about Google is that is already did to Linux what you are telling about Microsoft. Google has crossed the Linux EEE finish line years ago, in fact the Linux kernel is the only GPL thing left on Android and ChromeOS. As someone that was mostly a UNIX user I mostly don't care in what shape POSIX offerings end up in the market. Linux today, XYZ tomorrow, whatever.
mistrial9 5y ago
the benefits are for executive management and their investors, not users. Users's ad impressions and profiles are a product for management; more so for Teams.
- PaulHoule 5y ago
  Xandr seems to be one of those worthless businesses that gets passed around like a football between larger businesses just to make the balance sheets of the larger businesses incomprehensible. Right up there with Pivotal.
jahnu 5y ago
I'm a software engineer and have many software engineering friends and acquaintances and still even in this group of people who are almost all at least comfortable with Linux hardly any use it for anything except work or learning. It's roughly a 50/50 split for the rest between Windows and macOS. So how can it be remotely plausible that Linux will become a mainstream desktop/laptop OS? Non IT workers also seem to favour a combo of phones and tablets too only using laptops for work not caring what it runs.
- capableweb 5y ago
  > So how can it be remotely plausible that Linux will become a mainstream desktop/laptop OS? Because of time and inevitable changes happening to everything over time. Remember when Windows was nothing and everyone was using something else? Remember when macOS was nothing and everyone was using something else? Same thing can happen with Linux, or some other operating system. Sure, might take 10, 50, 100 years, but eventually, Windows and macOS (and probably Linux) will be relics of the past.
  - zeusk 5y ago
    I think platforms have gotten to a complexity where starting from a clean state isn't as easy anymore. Just look at fuschia, I know it's been in "early" development since at least 2013 and there's not much to show for it. Things get A LOT more complicated when you add localisation, accessibility, UI and all the other things we take for granted.
  - philjohn 5y ago
    It's still a long way off - have a look at the recent Linus Tech Tips challenge where he and Luke had to daily drive Linux for a month. They're technical people, and yes, LTT is hammed up a bit (I call it the Top Gear of Tech), but the number of issues they ran into that you just don't on Windows (in most cases) was illuminating. I have no troubles running a Linux home server, but I don't have time to fiddle around so my gaming desktop is Windows, and for work it's MacOS.
    - deleted 5y ago
ctrager 5y ago
I use Linux Mint. I don't think there's much if anything that makes Linux mint harder for a non-tech user. I think it's already the better option. But for non-tech users, I think buying a device with one OS and then wiping it to install a different OS is scary. Or doing anything that sounds risky to their daily laptop. So, where is the non-scary option for them to start with Linux? The laptops with Linux pre-installed, they aren't well known (or cheap). Does a Chromebook count as desktop linux?
howdydoo 5y ago
So you're saying 2022 is the year of the linux desktop?

antattack 5y ago

Microsoft is also embracing Linux and Open Source. The endgame is Tivoization.

syshum 5y ago
Do they though really... Microsoft Linux contribution is almost completely around making run better on azure or wsl not making Linux itself better. For open source they are attempting to control the mind share with dotnet, vscode, GitHub aka embrace phase We have started seeing signs of the extended phase in all 3 projects We all know what phase 3 of eee is
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Android and ChromeOS, Google got there first. Azure Sphere OS is also based on Linux kernel, not only cloud stuff. Another non Windows OS is Azure RTOS.
  - syshum 5y ago
    The whataboutism on Google is not really even worth responding to but pointing on another evil company is also abusing open source .... ok. Google has been openly hostile GPL for decades. As to the other 2 projects, I am not sure how this refutes my statements, which is Microsoft linux contributions are about making their commercial offerings better, and are not useful to anyone outside of those Commercial Offering (Azure and WSL) So how does pointing to Azure RTOS, and Azure Sphere refute that claim?
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      It doesn't refute the claim, only extends the space of non-Windows offerings from Microsoft. The point about Google is that is already did to Linux what you are telling about Microsoft. Google has crossed the Linux EEE finish line years ago, in fact the Linux kernel is the only GPL thing left on Android and ChromeOS. As someone that was mostly a UNIX user I mostly don't care in what shape POSIX offerings end up in the market. Linux today, XYZ tomorrow, whatever.

mistrial9 5y ago

the benefits are for executive management and their investors, not users. Users's ad impressions and profiles are a product for management; more so for Teams.

PaulHoule 5y ago
Xandr seems to be one of those worthless businesses that gets passed around like a football between larger businesses just to make the balance sheets of the larger businesses incomprehensible. Right up there with Pivotal.

jahnu 5y ago

I'm a software engineer and have many software engineering friends and acquaintances and still even in this group of people who are almost all at least comfortable with Linux hardly any use it for anything except work or learning. It's roughly a 50/50 split for the rest between Windows and macOS. So how can it be remotely plausible that Linux will become a mainstream desktop/laptop OS? Non IT workers also seem to favour a combo of phones and tablets too only using laptops for work not caring what it runs.

capableweb 5y ago
> So how can it be remotely plausible that Linux will become a mainstream desktop/laptop OS? Because of time and inevitable changes happening to everything over time. Remember when Windows was nothing and everyone was using something else? Remember when macOS was nothing and everyone was using something else? Same thing can happen with Linux, or some other operating system. Sure, might take 10, 50, 100 years, but eventually, Windows and macOS (and probably Linux) will be relics of the past.
- zeusk 5y ago
  I think platforms have gotten to a complexity where starting from a clean state isn't as easy anymore. Just look at fuschia, I know it's been in "early" development since at least 2013 and there's not much to show for it. Things get A LOT more complicated when you add localisation, accessibility, UI and all the other things we take for granted.
- philjohn 5y ago
  It's still a long way off - have a look at the recent Linus Tech Tips challenge where he and Luke had to daily drive Linux for a month. They're technical people, and yes, LTT is hammed up a bit (I call it the Top Gear of Tech), but the number of issues they ran into that you just don't on Windows (in most cases) was illuminating. I have no troubles running a Linux home server, but I don't have time to fiddle around so my gaming desktop is Windows, and for work it's MacOS.
  - deleted 5y ago

ctrager 5y ago

I use Linux Mint. I don't think there's much if anything that makes Linux mint harder for a non-tech user. I think it's already the better option. But for non-tech users, I think buying a device with one OS and then wiping it to install a different OS is scary. Or doing anything that sounds risky to their daily laptop. So, where is the non-scary option for them to start with Linux? The laptops with Linux pre-installed, they aren't well known (or cheap). Does a Chromebook count as desktop linux?

howdydoo 5y ago

So you're saying 2022 is the year of the linux desktop?