28 ms·

Report to Congress: Robocalls and Transmission of Misleading Caller ID

194 points by infodocket 5y ago

dfdub10 5y ago
How has nobody mentioned Ajit Pai overturning net neutrality which to me is exactly when the robo calls stopped flossing in. With Net Neutrality in place callers had to get your permission to call. And shocker, you remove oversight and allow free acces to run scams how is anyone surprised robocalls have become a huge issue.
- jffry 5y ago
  > With Net Neutrality in place callers had to get your permission to call That's not at all what Net Neutrality is, and its removal as policy wouldn't directly enable more of these spam calls from happening
- willis936 5y ago
  Interesting take, however your observation is opposite of reality. Can you explain why the number of robocalls have exploded soon after Ajit Pai's policies went into place?
- ncphil 5y ago
  For landlines we had a Do Not Call Registry, but nothing like that was ever implemented for mobile as far as I know. For me, false or misleading CallerIDs are the most immediate problem. If we required commercial entities to clearly identify themselves in their CallerID (the way many states require commercial vehicles to display their business name and contact info) then we'd have a fair shot of cutting down phone spam through "technical means". Almost all the "landline" (VOIP) calls coming into my house already go to voicemail thanks to around a dozen call treatments I've got in place: but delayed notice of an important call from the proverbial clueless bank or doctor's office with a blank CallerID is a constant risk.
  - clowd 5y ago
    The Do Not Call registry is for mobile numbers too. The problems with the registry are twofold: - The robocallers DGAF. Many of them are already doing something illegal to start with. The only entities who really seem to be concerned with downloading the registry and scrubbing their call lists are big legitimate corps. Rachel from Cardholder Services just wants to dial as many numbers as possible and isn't going to comply with the law. - Reporting violations is an effort in futility! A couple years ago I decided to report an idiot who was calling multiple times a day. The form asked for a bunch of information about the call, I filled all of it out, and several weeks later I got a reply from the FTC through postal mail with a dozen printed pages (including my complaint rendered onto their internal paperwork) saying sorry, they didn't have enough information to act. I get 10+ robocalls a day, I'm not spending my time filling out a form that goes nowhere. It's unfortunate, but the registry has no teeth.
thesis 5y ago
Illegal (fraud) robocalls need to stop. With that being said, I'm tired of the carriers / phone creators deciding when I want to answer my phone. An example of what I'm talking about: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251165362 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251165362 My bank was trying to get a hold of me due to them turning off autopay, and I wasn't answering their calls because it doesn't show a phone number or anything. Just "Spam Likely" IMO I'd rather see all calls coming to my phone, and send them to VM if I want. Devices nowadays even have the capability to block calls from outside your contact list if you want. These decisions should be up to me! Not some blackhole where algorithms decide if I should receive the call or not.
- CubsFan1060 5y ago
  Out of curiosity, do you feel the same about email? When I look in my gmail spam bucket it's insane how much stuff I never see (thankfully!).
  - thesis 5y ago
    No, I don't feel the same way about Junk email. I can go through it at my leisure and there's history there. Carriers potentially blocking calls is just some black box deciding what's "safe" for me. There are issues with mail servers being blacklisted and they can't send emails to me. But there's actual visibility to that. You can look up mail server IP's and get to the root issue of why you're blacklisted. Honestly I'd rather the government focus on the endless junk mail I receive to my home than anything. I spend more time sorting that rather than hitting decline on my phone.
    - orev 5y ago
      The email that makes it into your Junk folder are just the “probably spam” ones. Email providers are outright blocking “definitely spam” messages, where the decision is being made by a black box. There’s no history you can check for those, and the decisions are made in a much more complicated way than just checking an IP blocklist.
msoad 5y ago
The US government failed attempts to stop robocalls is my favorite example of how ineffective and corrupt the system is. We all know that in a healthy system it is an easy problem to solve. All the lobbyist and corporate interest is goin in the way. It's ironic because the government officials know how directly the general population feel the pain of this one and sometimes really want to do the unordinary and focus on interest of The People but can't get it done!
- vlovich123 5y ago
  This argument is interesting to me because why wouldn’t the same apply to email spam?
  - howdydoo 5y ago
    Phone service is an oligopoly. Spectrum is sold by the government and it is EXPENSIVE. No new companies can join the market, and customers have nowhere to go. So prices are high and companies do the bare minimum. Email is more of a fair marketplace. In theory, you can even roll your own on a $5/mo VPS. Switching costs are low. You can forward messages anywhere. So email providers cannot charge exorbitant rates or require 12-month contracts, and they must provide better service to retain customers.
    - vlovich123 5y ago
      You're thinking about cellular service. Most of the phone spam I'm aware of is coming from VoIP connections and the reason there's so much of it is it's extremely cheap.
    - kmeisthax 5y ago
      I think you have this backwards. E-mail is actually a good example of why you shouldn't open up communications systems too much. Because they're more or less free to send, people who want to send advertisements send loads of them. This makes e-mail entirely unusable unless you are very proactive in restricting who can send mail to you. Technical limitations like SPF, DKIM, and so on only prevent the worst abuses. What does really work has been IP blacklisting and reputation systems that more or less make rolling your e-mail very difficult. Yes, you can roll your own e-mail; but you're taking on the challenge of both getting spam out of your incoming mail as well as getting your outgoing mail to be deliverable to everyone else. As a homelab[0] training exercise, it's fun; but businesses that need reliable mail just outsource it all to Google or Microsoft. The end result is that e-mail users more or less reinvented the restrictive systems that phone service used to have before the FCC opened POTS up to everyone that wanted to call an entire state about the their car's extended warranty. When you mention spectrum limitations, that's for providing mobile phone service; which is only tangentially related to the actual phone call routing these days. Just getting a dialable number or placing a call is hilariously cheap and plenty of services of varying quality will let you do this in bulk. Providing access to that number over wireless spectrum is the expensive part; but you don't need spectrum to spam people. [0] Don't try to take the word "homelab" literally and run your mail server on your residential ISP. It won't work.
degenerate 5y ago
In today's telecom world where everything is tracked and logged down to the microsecond, it's extremely angering that the only reason we still get robocalls is because the players in the telecom game are making a lot of money from letting them happen.
- tenebrisalietum 5y ago
  Phones and snail mail have been supplanted by equivalent Internet services, and both are trying to stay alive/relevant by selling out to annoying commercial interests. Telegrams gave way to phones, but it was never possible to spam someone with telegrams, and they had a cost per word.
  - tdeck 5y ago
    If telcos want the phone to be relevant, this is the wrong way to go about it. Just 10 years ago I answered my phone when it rang, even with an unknown number. Does anybody do that anymore? It's become nearly unusable, for example, as a way for businesses to contact customers they have an actual relationship with because of all the spam.
    - thewebcount 5y ago
      > It's become nearly unusable, for example, as a way for businesses to contact customers they have an actual relationship with because of all the spam. On top of that the telcos are joining in on the fun. I am an AT&T cell phone subscriber and in the last month they’ve started robo-calling me non-stop to sign up for their ailing DirecTV service. Who in their right mind would subscribe to that with all the better streaming options available? But the worst part is that they technically aren’t breaking the rules themselves because we do have an existing business relationship (if you can call paying my bill on time and doing everything in my power not to otherwise interact with them a relationship).
      - tehjoker 5y ago
        I'd really like to be able to use my phone for real relationships with natural persons too even if they're not in my contact list.
hinkley 5y ago
I saw a Shitty Life Tips the other day claiming that if you mentioned Tienanmen Square to the Chinese robocallers that they'll end up on a list. I only know enough about Mandarin to distinguish it from all the other East Asian languages. Maybe I should have my coworker teach me "fuck off and stop calling me," but what I really want is a Mark as Spam button on my phone instead of just block caller.
- EricE 5y ago
  I use the Nomorobo app and I also add any spammers that manage to still get through to a contact I titled "DO NOT ANSWER". And as soon as Apple added the option I set that contact to go straight to voicemail. I must have a few thousand numbers in it now - freaking ridiculous. Sadly with cheap VOIP numbers I rarely get more than one call from the same number - apparently it's too cheap and easy for them to buy new numbers to rotate through.
- hangonhn 5y ago
  That's definitely a bad life tip. The square itself is still call "Tiananmen". Even if the Chinese government censor any mention of the massacre, simply mentioning the name of the location won't trigger it because it's like saying "Capital Mall" -- it's a place people go. For that to remotely work, you would have to actually say "Tiananmen Square Massacre" but I doubt most people would be able to say it in Mandarin. (In Chinese it's called the June 4th incident so Tiananmen isn't even mentioned). I'm now actually more curious about the meme itself. I wonder if the actual motive is to get non-Chinese people to be more curious about the event. If so, it would actually be a meme or a mental virus. Fascinating to say the least.
  - hinkley 5y ago
    Streisand effect is a real thing.
  - cjbgkagh 5y ago
    There is copypasta of banned expressions that you can use.
cogburnd02 5y ago
this is one fugly text file: https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-378593A1.txt https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-378593A1.txt
- thomas 5y ago
  Yes, most government data is awful but it's usually at least workable. That's why sites like sec.report and https://fccid.report https://fccid.report exist. https://www.ecfr.gov https://www.ecfr.gov is actually good though.
- colejohnson66 5y ago
  That looks like some PDF->TXT software was used
thewebcount 5y ago
For me this is the most infuriating part: > The Commission does not collect criminal fines for violations of section 227. > If a party fails to pay a forfeiture, we refer the matter to the U.S. Department of Justice for further enforcement action. We have referred to the Department of Justice forfeiture orders involving violations of section 227 by Adrian Abramovich, Marketing Strategy Leaders, Inc., and Marketing Leaders, Inc. (Abramovich), Philip Roesel, dba Wilmington Insurance Quotes, and Best Insurance Contracts, Inc. (Roesel), Affordable Enterprises of Arizona, LLC, and Scott Rhodes a.k.a. Scott David Rhodes, Scott D. Rhodes, Scott Platek, Scott P. Platek (Rhodes). 34 During calendar year 2020, the Attorney General did not collect any forfeiture penalties or criminal fines for violations of section 227 cases that the Commission has referred. We lack knowledge about the U.S. Department of Justice’s collections beyond those cases. It said earlier that these entities owe tens of millions of dollars in forfeitures. Why were they not collected? If these criminals know that there’s no penalty, they’ll continue acting badly. (And we can see already that they do this. They change names and start over.)
- xxpor 5y ago
  Are you upset about the lack of criminal penalties imposed directly by the FCC? That's mostly just an organizational issue. The FCC isn't law enforcement. They can only impose civil penalties. Referring the issue to the Justice dept is really the only thing they can do. I think this goes for all independent agencies. Of course, once it's referred over there, it goes in the big tumbler of prioritization for the FBI/US Attorneys.... and I'm not shocked they wouldn't immediately jump on a non-violent, extremely technically complex case.
  - ncphil 5y ago
    Can't help but think that if marijuana decriminalization/legalization finally happens, law enforcement will be rooting around for other low hanging fruit. Seems like this just might fit the bill. Imagining heavily armed SWAT teams breaking down the doors of call centers and swarming in. On that happy note...
    - 5y ago
dalrympm 5y ago
Can the FCC revoke the major mobile operators' spectrum licenses if they fail to verify Caller ID records? I know that won't help with land-lines and VoIP but I imagine it would take away the bulk of the incentive for the perpetrators.
- EricE 5y ago
  They could revoke the land line companies authorizations too. The problem is it's a complex issue affecting millions if not billions of what is now legacy phone equipment that would have to probably be replaced. And for land lines that's a dying market - no one in their right mind would want to modernize infrastructure that's more than likely on it's way out. Might be able to get cell phone providers attention far easier. Both groups have significant lobbying presences, I'm sure, so it will continue to be a pitched battle - but if it's ever going to be a traceable/solvable problem the fundamental protocols used between phone exchanges are going to have to be beefed up with spoofing in mind. Before VOIP and the number porting rules others have referenced in this thread it was nigh impossible to spoof numbers because each phone company owned their own block and that was that. Now any number can be held by any phone provider - the horse is out of the barn :p
faizshah 5y ago
I now get them on whatsapp, twitter DM and signal too. As well as group text messages, daily spoofed sms text messages on top of normal spoofed calls. Its getting ridiculous at this point.
- idatum 5y ago
  On Signal? Wow, this is bad news because I have my immediate family on Signal and I won't pick up a call unless it's a Signal call. Regarding the money trail, etc: I can't help but think we'll never really see the "surveillance economy" properly regulated, where our data is profited from. Because there is just too much profit. EDIT: The context for this thread: I get SPAM calls on my mobile about extending my car's warranty. How do SPAMMERs know about my car purchase? How do they know the exact model and date of purchase? Someone sold this data.
  - faizshah 5y ago
    Yea unfortunately I have to agree with your second point. Maybe in Europe they will successfully regulate it since most of these companies are American, but I think the only way we could stop our data from being profited from is if we stopped centralizing the data and giving so much power to service providers. That’s why I like what Tim Berners Lee is doing with Solid, but I think the main point is we need to build some way for personal data to be distributed and encrypted so that it’s fundamentally very difficult to steal every customers data even if the system itself is broken. I dunno if it’s possible though since most tech companies make a significant portion of their money on their customers’ data.
alberth 5y ago
I wonder if this will affect Twilio.
thomas 5y ago
More info here: Advanced Methods to Target and Eliminate Unlawful Robocalls: Petition for Reconsideration and Request for Clarification of USTelecom – The Broadband Association https://ofr.report/pi/2021-28212/ https://ofr.report/pi/2021-28212/
herodotus 5y ago
Not widely advertised, by my provider (Telus) offers "call-control" which asks callers to enter a randomly selected digit before the call comes to me, unless they are on an approved list, or they have passed the challenge previously. I can turn the service on or off, and add approved numbers using a web app. I had to contact them to activate this service, but I am very happy I have it. Of course not all robo-calls are by bad players. For example, if I am offered a call-back from a tech support call because of wait times, I need to remember to turn call control off until the call comes. Rob calls from political parties during election time, on the other hand, I am happy to live without. I wish all providers were required to provide this service.
- 300bps 5y ago
  I’ve often thought this was a quick work-around but wonder if it works because not enough people use it? For example, what happens if the robocaller sends 0-9 digit tones in rapid succession? Does it let them through even though they got it wrong an average of five times before getting it right? They could even use voice to text to listen to the number requested. I would love if my provider had this feature but it doesn’t. So I end up whitelisting my contacts and putting my iPhone into Focus mode. One of the ways of getting past Focus mode default settings is to call twice in fast succession. I’ve noticed some robocallers calling, hanging up immediately and calling right back which puts the call through.
  - viraptor 5y ago
    It would be a big step in tech stack of a typical dialler to add this. It's not hard, but requires a bit of effort up front. Unfortunately, as soon as it's done, it will be sold as a service.
ericmay 5y ago
I think the only way to solve this is just to have whitelists.
- dboreham 5y ago
  I have that. I never answer the phone.
  - ericmay 5y ago
    I wish I could just toggle my iPhone and if the number isn’t in my contacts it just never hits my phone
    - EricE 5y ago
      If you are on iOS 13 or higher you can: https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/avoid-unwanted-calls-iphe4b3f7823/ios https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/avoid-unwanted-calls-... Scroll down to the last section "Send unknown and spam callers to voicemail". You want to activate the Silence Unknown Callers feature. Go to Settings > Phone, then tap any of the following: Silence Unknown Callers: You get notifications for calls from people in your contacts, recent outgoing calls, and Siri Suggestions. Call Blocking & Identification: Turn on Silence Junk Callers (available with certain carriers) to silence calls identified by your carrier as potential spam or fraud.
BoogerDan 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
dwheeler 5y ago
At one time phones were useful. Robocalls have stolen all our phones from us. I would like my phone back. I would like us all to have our phones back. The penalties actually paid need to increase until we get our phones back from the thieves.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  It shouldn't be a matter of penalities. Robocallers are attacking critical infrastructure and preying on the vulnerable and causing many people to die prematurely. They should be treated like terrorist and the US should sanction countries that are not taking the issue seriously and label them supporters of terrorism. If these people feared having military attack their call centers and operations they would turn on each other in a heartbeat.
  - daniel-cussen 5y ago
    Yeah in fact those robocalls mean that when a lost child calls on a payphone they don't get through.
    - encryptluks2 5y ago
      Or when your grandma or grandpa spend their life savings and are stuck without adequate care and services, then they die much sooner than they normally would.
diebeforei485 5y ago
Most of these robocalls are ultimately foreign origin, right? There has to be stronger enforcement on this.
alimov 5y ago
Anyone here familiar with STIR/SHAKEN ? https://www.fcc.gov/call-authentication https://www.fcc.gov/call-authentication

194 points by infodocket 5y ago

How has nobody mentioned Ajit Pai overturning net neutrality which to me is exactly when the robo calls stopped flossing in. With Net Neutrality in place callers had to get your permission to call. And shocker, you remove oversight and allow free acces to run scams how is anyone surprised robocalls have become a huge issue.

jffry 5y ago
> With Net Neutrality in place callers had to get your permission to call That's not at all what Net Neutrality is, and its removal as policy wouldn't directly enable more of these spam calls from happening
willis936 5y ago
Interesting take, however your observation is opposite of reality. Can you explain why the number of robocalls have exploded soon after Ajit Pai's policies went into place?
ncphil 5y ago
For landlines we had a Do Not Call Registry, but nothing like that was ever implemented for mobile as far as I know. For me, false or misleading CallerIDs are the most immediate problem. If we required commercial entities to clearly identify themselves in their CallerID (the way many states require commercial vehicles to display their business name and contact info) then we'd have a fair shot of cutting down phone spam through "technical means". Almost all the "landline" (VOIP) calls coming into my house already go to voicemail thanks to around a dozen call treatments I've got in place: but delayed notice of an important call from the proverbial clueless bank or doctor's office with a blank CallerID is a constant risk.
- clowd 5y ago
  The Do Not Call registry is for mobile numbers too. The problems with the registry are twofold: - The robocallers DGAF. Many of them are already doing something illegal to start with. The only entities who really seem to be concerned with downloading the registry and scrubbing their call lists are big legitimate corps. Rachel from Cardholder Services just wants to dial as many numbers as possible and isn't going to comply with the law. - Reporting violations is an effort in futility! A couple years ago I decided to report an idiot who was calling multiple times a day. The form asked for a bunch of information about the call, I filled all of it out, and several weeks later I got a reply from the FTC through postal mail with a dozen printed pages (including my complaint rendered onto their internal paperwork) saying sorry, they didn't have enough information to act. I get 10+ robocalls a day, I'm not spending my time filling out a form that goes nowhere. It's unfortunate, but the registry has no teeth.

thesis 5y ago

Illegal (fraud) robocalls need to stop. With that being said, I'm tired of the carriers / phone creators deciding when I want to answer my phone. An example of what I'm talking about: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251165362 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251165362 My bank was trying to get a hold of me due to them turning off autopay, and I wasn't answering their calls because it doesn't show a phone number or anything. Just "Spam Likely" IMO I'd rather see all calls coming to my phone, and send them to VM if I want. Devices nowadays even have the capability to block calls from outside your contact list if you want. These decisions should be up to me! Not some blackhole where algorithms decide if I should receive the call or not.

CubsFan1060 5y ago
Out of curiosity, do you feel the same about email? When I look in my gmail spam bucket it's insane how much stuff I never see (thankfully!).
- thesis 5y ago
  No, I don't feel the same way about Junk email. I can go through it at my leisure and there's history there. Carriers potentially blocking calls is just some black box deciding what's "safe" for me. There are issues with mail servers being blacklisted and they can't send emails to me. But there's actual visibility to that. You can look up mail server IP's and get to the root issue of why you're blacklisted. Honestly I'd rather the government focus on the endless junk mail I receive to my home than anything. I spend more time sorting that rather than hitting decline on my phone.
  - orev 5y ago
    The email that makes it into your Junk folder are just the “probably spam” ones. Email providers are outright blocking “definitely spam” messages, where the decision is being made by a black box. There’s no history you can check for those, and the decisions are made in a much more complicated way than just checking an IP blocklist.

msoad 5y ago

The US government failed attempts to stop robocalls is my favorite example of how ineffective and corrupt the system is. We all know that in a healthy system it is an easy problem to solve. All the lobbyist and corporate interest is goin in the way. It's ironic because the government officials know how directly the general population feel the pain of this one and sometimes really want to do the unordinary and focus on interest of The People but can't get it done!

vlovich123 5y ago
This argument is interesting to me because why wouldn’t the same apply to email spam?
- howdydoo 5y ago
  Phone service is an oligopoly. Spectrum is sold by the government and it is EXPENSIVE. No new companies can join the market, and customers have nowhere to go. So prices are high and companies do the bare minimum. Email is more of a fair marketplace. In theory, you can even roll your own on a $5/mo VPS. Switching costs are low. You can forward messages anywhere. So email providers cannot charge exorbitant rates or require 12-month contracts, and they must provide better service to retain customers.
  - vlovich123 5y ago
    You're thinking about cellular service. Most of the phone spam I'm aware of is coming from VoIP connections and the reason there's so much of it is it's extremely cheap.
  - kmeisthax 5y ago
    I think you have this backwards. E-mail is actually a good example of why you shouldn't open up communications systems too much. Because they're more or less free to send, people who want to send advertisements send loads of them. This makes e-mail entirely unusable unless you are very proactive in restricting who can send mail to you. Technical limitations like SPF, DKIM, and so on only prevent the worst abuses. What does really work has been IP blacklisting and reputation systems that more or less make rolling your e-mail very difficult. Yes, you can roll your own e-mail; but you're taking on the challenge of both getting spam out of your incoming mail as well as getting your outgoing mail to be deliverable to everyone else. As a homelab[0] training exercise, it's fun; but businesses that need reliable mail just outsource it all to Google or Microsoft. The end result is that e-mail users more or less reinvented the restrictive systems that phone service used to have before the FCC opened POTS up to everyone that wanted to call an entire state about the their car's extended warranty. When you mention spectrum limitations, that's for providing mobile phone service; which is only tangentially related to the actual phone call routing these days. Just getting a dialable number or placing a call is hilariously cheap and plenty of services of varying quality will let you do this in bulk. Providing access to that number over wireless spectrum is the expensive part; but you don't need spectrum to spam people. [0] Don't try to take the word "homelab" literally and run your mail server on your residential ISP. It won't work.

degenerate 5y ago

In today's telecom world where everything is tracked and logged down to the microsecond, it's extremely angering that the only reason we still get robocalls is because the players in the telecom game are making a lot of money from letting them happen.

tenebrisalietum 5y ago
Phones and snail mail have been supplanted by equivalent Internet services, and both are trying to stay alive/relevant by selling out to annoying commercial interests. Telegrams gave way to phones, but it was never possible to spam someone with telegrams, and they had a cost per word.
- tdeck 5y ago
  If telcos want the phone to be relevant, this is the wrong way to go about it. Just 10 years ago I answered my phone when it rang, even with an unknown number. Does anybody do that anymore? It's become nearly unusable, for example, as a way for businesses to contact customers they have an actual relationship with because of all the spam.
  - thewebcount 5y ago
    > It's become nearly unusable, for example, as a way for businesses to contact customers they have an actual relationship with because of all the spam. On top of that the telcos are joining in on the fun. I am an AT&T cell phone subscriber and in the last month they’ve started robo-calling me non-stop to sign up for their ailing DirecTV service. Who in their right mind would subscribe to that with all the better streaming options available? But the worst part is that they technically aren’t breaking the rules themselves because we do have an existing business relationship (if you can call paying my bill on time and doing everything in my power not to otherwise interact with them a relationship).
    - tehjoker 5y ago
      I'd really like to be able to use my phone for real relationships with natural persons too even if they're not in my contact list.

hinkley 5y ago

I saw a Shitty Life Tips the other day claiming that if you mentioned Tienanmen Square to the Chinese robocallers that they'll end up on a list. I only know enough about Mandarin to distinguish it from all the other East Asian languages. Maybe I should have my coworker teach me "fuck off and stop calling me," but what I really want is a Mark as Spam button on my phone instead of just block caller.

EricE 5y ago
I use the Nomorobo app and I also add any spammers that manage to still get through to a contact I titled "DO NOT ANSWER". And as soon as Apple added the option I set that contact to go straight to voicemail. I must have a few thousand numbers in it now - freaking ridiculous. Sadly with cheap VOIP numbers I rarely get more than one call from the same number - apparently it's too cheap and easy for them to buy new numbers to rotate through.
hangonhn 5y ago
That's definitely a bad life tip. The square itself is still call "Tiananmen". Even if the Chinese government censor any mention of the massacre, simply mentioning the name of the location won't trigger it because it's like saying "Capital Mall" -- it's a place people go. For that to remotely work, you would have to actually say "Tiananmen Square Massacre" but I doubt most people would be able to say it in Mandarin. (In Chinese it's called the June 4th incident so Tiananmen isn't even mentioned). I'm now actually more curious about the meme itself. I wonder if the actual motive is to get non-Chinese people to be more curious about the event. If so, it would actually be a meme or a mental virus. Fascinating to say the least.
- hinkley 5y ago
  Streisand effect is a real thing.
- cjbgkagh 5y ago
  There is copypasta of banned expressions that you can use.

cogburnd02 5y ago

this is one fugly text file: https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-378593A1.txt https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-378593A1.txt

thomas 5y ago
Yes, most government data is awful but it's usually at least workable. That's why sites like sec.report and https://fccid.report https://fccid.report exist. https://www.ecfr.gov https://www.ecfr.gov is actually good though.
colejohnson66 5y ago
That looks like some PDF->TXT software was used

thewebcount 5y ago

For me this is the most infuriating part: > The Commission does not collect criminal fines for violations of section 227. > If a party fails to pay a forfeiture, we refer the matter to the U.S. Department of Justice for further enforcement action. We have referred to the Department of Justice forfeiture orders involving violations of section 227 by Adrian Abramovich, Marketing Strategy Leaders, Inc., and Marketing Leaders, Inc. (Abramovich), Philip Roesel, dba Wilmington Insurance Quotes, and Best Insurance Contracts, Inc. (Roesel), Affordable Enterprises of Arizona, LLC, and Scott Rhodes a.k.a. Scott David Rhodes, Scott D. Rhodes, Scott Platek, Scott P. Platek (Rhodes). 34 During calendar year 2020, the Attorney General did not collect any forfeiture penalties or criminal fines for violations of section 227 cases that the Commission has referred. We lack knowledge about the U.S. Department of Justice’s collections beyond those cases. It said earlier that these entities owe tens of millions of dollars in forfeitures. Why were they not collected? If these criminals know that there’s no penalty, they’ll continue acting badly. (And we can see already that they do this. They change names and start over.)

xxpor 5y ago
Are you upset about the lack of criminal penalties imposed directly by the FCC? That's mostly just an organizational issue. The FCC isn't law enforcement. They can only impose civil penalties. Referring the issue to the Justice dept is really the only thing they can do. I think this goes for all independent agencies. Of course, once it's referred over there, it goes in the big tumbler of prioritization for the FBI/US Attorneys.... and I'm not shocked they wouldn't immediately jump on a non-violent, extremely technically complex case.
- ncphil 5y ago
  Can't help but think that if marijuana decriminalization/legalization finally happens, law enforcement will be rooting around for other low hanging fruit. Seems like this just might fit the bill. Imagining heavily armed SWAT teams breaking down the doors of call centers and swarming in. On that happy note...
  - 5y ago

dalrympm 5y ago

Can the FCC revoke the major mobile operators' spectrum licenses if they fail to verify Caller ID records? I know that won't help with land-lines and VoIP but I imagine it would take away the bulk of the incentive for the perpetrators.

EricE 5y ago
They could revoke the land line companies authorizations too. The problem is it's a complex issue affecting millions if not billions of what is now legacy phone equipment that would have to probably be replaced. And for land lines that's a dying market - no one in their right mind would want to modernize infrastructure that's more than likely on it's way out. Might be able to get cell phone providers attention far easier. Both groups have significant lobbying presences, I'm sure, so it will continue to be a pitched battle - but if it's ever going to be a traceable/solvable problem the fundamental protocols used between phone exchanges are going to have to be beefed up with spoofing in mind. Before VOIP and the number porting rules others have referenced in this thread it was nigh impossible to spoof numbers because each phone company owned their own block and that was that. Now any number can be held by any phone provider - the horse is out of the barn :p

faizshah 5y ago

I now get them on whatsapp, twitter DM and signal too. As well as group text messages, daily spoofed sms text messages on top of normal spoofed calls. Its getting ridiculous at this point.

idatum 5y ago
On Signal? Wow, this is bad news because I have my immediate family on Signal and I won't pick up a call unless it's a Signal call. Regarding the money trail, etc: I can't help but think we'll never really see the "surveillance economy" properly regulated, where our data is profited from. Because there is just too much profit. EDIT: The context for this thread: I get SPAM calls on my mobile about extending my car's warranty. How do SPAMMERs know about my car purchase? How do they know the exact model and date of purchase? Someone sold this data.
- faizshah 5y ago
  Yea unfortunately I have to agree with your second point. Maybe in Europe they will successfully regulate it since most of these companies are American, but I think the only way we could stop our data from being profited from is if we stopped centralizing the data and giving so much power to service providers. That’s why I like what Tim Berners Lee is doing with Solid, but I think the main point is we need to build some way for personal data to be distributed and encrypted so that it’s fundamentally very difficult to steal every customers data even if the system itself is broken. I dunno if it’s possible though since most tech companies make a significant portion of their money on their customers’ data.

alberth 5y ago

I wonder if this will affect Twilio.

thomas 5y ago

More info here: Advanced Methods to Target and Eliminate Unlawful Robocalls: Petition for Reconsideration and Request for Clarification of USTelecom – The Broadband Association https://ofr.report/pi/2021-28212/ https://ofr.report/pi/2021-28212/

herodotus 5y ago

Not widely advertised, by my provider (Telus) offers "call-control" which asks callers to enter a randomly selected digit before the call comes to me, unless they are on an approved list, or they have passed the challenge previously. I can turn the service on or off, and add approved numbers using a web app. I had to contact them to activate this service, but I am very happy I have it. Of course not all robo-calls are by bad players. For example, if I am offered a call-back from a tech support call because of wait times, I need to remember to turn call control off until the call comes. Rob calls from political parties during election time, on the other hand, I am happy to live without. I wish all providers were required to provide this service.

300bps 5y ago
I’ve often thought this was a quick work-around but wonder if it works because not enough people use it? For example, what happens if the robocaller sends 0-9 digit tones in rapid succession? Does it let them through even though they got it wrong an average of five times before getting it right? They could even use voice to text to listen to the number requested. I would love if my provider had this feature but it doesn’t. So I end up whitelisting my contacts and putting my iPhone into Focus mode. One of the ways of getting past Focus mode default settings is to call twice in fast succession. I’ve noticed some robocallers calling, hanging up immediately and calling right back which puts the call through.
- viraptor 5y ago
  It would be a big step in tech stack of a typical dialler to add this. It's not hard, but requires a bit of effort up front. Unfortunately, as soon as it's done, it will be sold as a service.

ericmay 5y ago

I think the only way to solve this is just to have whitelists.

dboreham 5y ago
I have that. I never answer the phone.
- ericmay 5y ago
  I wish I could just toggle my iPhone and if the number isn’t in my contacts it just never hits my phone
  - EricE 5y ago
    If you are on iOS 13 or higher you can: https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/avoid-unwanted-calls-iphe4b3f7823/ios https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/avoid-unwanted-calls-... Scroll down to the last section "Send unknown and spam callers to voicemail". You want to activate the Silence Unknown Callers feature. Go to Settings > Phone, then tap any of the following: Silence Unknown Callers: You get notifications for calls from people in your contacts, recent outgoing calls, and Siri Suggestions. Call Blocking & Identification: Turn on Silence Junk Callers (available with certain carriers) to silence calls identified by your carrier as potential spam or fraud.

BoogerDan 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

dwheeler 5y ago

At one time phones were useful. Robocalls have stolen all our phones from us. I would like my phone back. I would like us all to have our phones back. The penalties actually paid need to increase until we get our phones back from the thieves.

encryptluks2 5y ago
It shouldn't be a matter of penalities. Robocallers are attacking critical infrastructure and preying on the vulnerable and causing many people to die prematurely. They should be treated like terrorist and the US should sanction countries that are not taking the issue seriously and label them supporters of terrorism. If these people feared having military attack their call centers and operations they would turn on each other in a heartbeat.
- daniel-cussen 5y ago
  Yeah in fact those robocalls mean that when a lost child calls on a payphone they don't get through.
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    Or when your grandma or grandpa spend their life savings and are stuck without adequate care and services, then they die much sooner than they normally would.

diebeforei485 5y ago

Most of these robocalls are ultimately foreign origin, right? There has to be stronger enforcement on this.

alimov 5y ago

Anyone here familiar with STIR/SHAKEN ? https://www.fcc.gov/call-authentication https://www.fcc.gov/call-authentication