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It's tragic that mass democracy is basically nihilistic in nature. If your values are decided by whatever the 51% want, then you are a reed in the wind. The Gre

It's tragic that mass democracy is basically nihilistic in nature. If your values are decided by whatever the 51% want, then you are a reed in the wind. The Greeks had this figured out a long time ago, and Plato's Republic is a pure expression of that ideal of a divinely ordered hierarchy. Similarly, reactionaries like Moldbug argue that we'd be better off with a monarchy, because they have the sovereignty to execute a long term vision, and while I believe he's wrong about many things, that sentiment sort of rings true. In present times, where we've abolished metaphysical hierarchies and replaced them with materialist hierarchies like capitalism, if you want to execute on a long term vision, then you need to seize technocratic control to manufacture mass opinion to support it, and ruthlessly lobby politicians to execute it. That seems incredibly inefficient, and oddly more totalitarian.

civilized 5y ago
I am not in love with Moldbug or other ideologues who would like to throw us into the sausage machine of history -- mostly, I think, because they're bored and impatient for something cool to happen. All I want from my government is to let me live my life and prevent especially horrible things from happening. For this value system, constitutional liberal democracy is the safest bet. Things will get better as humans themselves slowly improve.
- nobodyandproud 5y ago
  The pro-monarchists seem to forget that tunnel-vision is a real problem. Half of the country believed Hillary Clinton (myself included) would’ve won in 2016. > All I want from my government is to let me live my life and prevent especially horrible things from happening. To make this happen, often times it means someone else is doing horrible things for you. While we’re not at the level of Belgian-horribleness, the US people in power are perfectly capable of using people as cattle; and really good at hiding the ugly details.
  - civilized 5y ago
    > To make this happen, often times it means someone else is doing horrible things for you. I suppose this is probably true to some degree at all times, but in today's world, I think the US could stop doing 99% of the bad things it's doing and I would be no worse off, and probably better. Especially if they went back in time and stopped doing those things from at least 20 years ago.
    - nobodyandproud 5y ago
      I know where you’re coming from, but I’m not sure turning back the clock 20 year would be enough. All of todays issues had its roots in decisions and policies from decades earlier, including from 20 years ago. Even if the US stopped, someone else would’ve stepped in and taken advantage; and at best delay things a generation. Recall that best practices were to offshore labor, and that was going on since the 1980s and earlier. Hell, even 25 years ago the tech industry was bellyaching about Republicans categorizing many hardware and software as munitions. And of course the peak of the labor-offshoring happened around 20 years ago, and many Americans even then believed that a free-market society==free society. We’re only now collectively coming to terms with that false premise.

civilized 5y ago

I am not in love with Moldbug or other ideologues who would like to throw us into the sausage machine of history -- mostly, I think, because they're bored and impatient for something cool to happen. All I want from my government is to let me live my life and prevent especially horrible things from happening. For this value system, constitutional liberal democracy is the safest bet. Things will get better as humans themselves slowly improve.

nobodyandproud 5y ago
The pro-monarchists seem to forget that tunnel-vision is a real problem. Half of the country believed Hillary Clinton (myself included) would’ve won in 2016. > All I want from my government is to let me live my life and prevent especially horrible things from happening. To make this happen, often times it means someone else is doing horrible things for you. While we’re not at the level of Belgian-horribleness, the US people in power are perfectly capable of using people as cattle; and really good at hiding the ugly details.
- civilized 5y ago
  > To make this happen, often times it means someone else is doing horrible things for you. I suppose this is probably true to some degree at all times, but in today's world, I think the US could stop doing 99% of the bad things it's doing and I would be no worse off, and probably better. Especially if they went back in time and stopped doing those things from at least 20 years ago.
  - nobodyandproud 5y ago
    I know where you’re coming from, but I’m not sure turning back the clock 20 year would be enough. All of todays issues had its roots in decisions and policies from decades earlier, including from 20 years ago. Even if the US stopped, someone else would’ve stepped in and taken advantage; and at best delay things a generation. Recall that best practices were to offshore labor, and that was going on since the 1980s and earlier. Hell, even 25 years ago the tech industry was bellyaching about Republicans categorizing many hardware and software as munitions. And of course the peak of the labor-offshoring happened around 20 years ago, and many Americans even then believed that a free-market society==free society. We’re only now collectively coming to terms with that false premise.