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This is my biggest problem with the response to Covid in the USA.. the very "loose" information provided/parroted by officials that are designed to manipulate p

This is my biggest problem with the response to Covid in the USA.. the very "loose" information provided/parroted by officials that are designed to manipulate public perception without simply providing the facts for people to make their own judgments. One of the current ones is how you keep hearing how hospitals are "overwhelmed" and we are running out of beds.. they neglect to tell you the impact of all health care providers that had quit because they refused to take the vaccine. So in affect it was the hospitals own policies that caused this issue. This is why Minnesota has called on the National Guard to help replace all the nurses that quit. There are plenty of beds/ICUs just not enough employees to cover them.

VikingCoder 5y ago
Hi, I have friends and family who are doctors in Minnesota. They were overwhelmed even before the hospitals decided to fire the health care workers who don't listen to health care advice. Your "biggest problem" is not based on fact.
- mannanj 5y ago
  Your local hospitals in Minnesota are not hospitals nationwide. I have many hospitals in Northern Virginia, DC, and even LA that have been nothing close to "full" for many months of the last year, the media portrayed them as full. Your "biggest problem" is not based on fact.
  - VikingCoder 5y ago
    The person I was responding to specifically cited Minnesota. You said "have been nothing close to 'full' for many months of the last year." A reasonable interpretation of your words is that there was at least one month last year where the hospitals in your area were "close to 'full'." How long does a hospital need to be "close to 'full'" for the people who work there to feel "overwhelmed"?
VikingCoder 5y ago
> So in affect it was the hospitals own policies that caused this issue. CITATION NEEDED Are you talking about the 53 Allina employees (out of 27,000) who were fired? https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/allina-says-it-parted-ways-with-53-of-its-27000-employees-over-covid-vaccine-mandate https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/allina-says-it-par... The 0.2%? That's what you think did it? And the National Guard - is this what you're referring to? > The Minnesota National Guard will deploy 400 members to reinforce nursing staffs at long-term care facilities https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2021/11/22/minnesota-national-guard-to-reinforce-nursing-home-staffs/ https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2021/11/22/... They were deployeed to long-term care. Not ICU. If you want to make the argument that it was losing staff to vaccine mandates that resulted in hospitals being overwhelmed, I think you have a big hill to climb to make a credible argument.
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jwolfe 5y ago
The news frequently talks about short staff at hospitals, in my own observations. Is there any evidence supporting vaccine requirements being a larger source of nurse attrition than burnout?
- mannanj 5y ago
  If you ask a fact checker that, no. Years later when they change their tune, then yes. So the answer is no: because we live in a fact checker society now.
Nextgrid 5y ago
Are you saying that people who don't believe in medicine and can put patients at risk should remain employed?
- mannanj 5y ago
  Are you Straw Manning and Ad Hominem attacking the author in the same post? Where did he say that these people don't believe in medicine? In fact, being a Doctor or Nurse by definition means believing in medicine and protecting the patient is your job. More so than some random hacker news stranger.
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    > Where did he say that these people don't believe in medicine? Refusing to take a vaccine that appears to be safe and reasonably effective despite being in a pandemic and in a field of work that both increases your risk of exposure and increases the potential damage caused by said exposure (spreading the disease around people who might be already weakened by other medical conditions) suggests they don't. > Ad Hominem attacking the author Could you elaborate? I don't see anything in my comment that's attacking the author directly rather than their claims which I totally disagree with.
mannanj 5y ago
The problem is fact checks would do the damage on a post like yours above, and by the time they're proven "wrong" have done the damage and moved on. it really is just information parroting/parading, and anyone defending it, is OK with it because its supporting their own "interpretation of the facts". It's wild how polarized we are, but not really, because these things are just further supporting the echo chamber of opinions one side already had.

VikingCoder 5y ago

Hi, I have friends and family who are doctors in Minnesota. They were overwhelmed even before the hospitals decided to fire the health care workers who don't listen to health care advice. Your "biggest problem" is not based on fact.

mannanj 5y ago
Your local hospitals in Minnesota are not hospitals nationwide. I have many hospitals in Northern Virginia, DC, and even LA that have been nothing close to "full" for many months of the last year, the media portrayed them as full. Your "biggest problem" is not based on fact.
- VikingCoder 5y ago
  The person I was responding to specifically cited Minnesota. You said "have been nothing close to 'full' for many months of the last year." A reasonable interpretation of your words is that there was at least one month last year where the hospitals in your area were "close to 'full'." How long does a hospital need to be "close to 'full'" for the people who work there to feel "overwhelmed"?

VikingCoder 5y ago

> So in affect it was the hospitals own policies that caused this issue. CITATION NEEDED Are you talking about the 53 Allina employees (out of 27,000) who were fired? https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/allina-says-it-parted-ways-with-53-of-its-27000-employees-over-covid-vaccine-mandate https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/allina-says-it-par... The 0.2%? That's what you think did it? And the National Guard - is this what you're referring to? > The Minnesota National Guard will deploy 400 members to reinforce nursing staffs at long-term care facilities https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2021/11/22/minnesota-national-guard-to-reinforce-nursing-home-staffs/ https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2021/11/22/... They were deployeed to long-term care. Not ICU. If you want to make the argument that it was losing staff to vaccine mandates that resulted in hospitals being overwhelmed, I think you have a big hill to climb to make a credible argument.

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jwolfe 5y ago

The news frequently talks about short staff at hospitals, in my own observations. Is there any evidence supporting vaccine requirements being a larger source of nurse attrition than burnout?

mannanj 5y ago
If you ask a fact checker that, no. Years later when they change their tune, then yes. So the answer is no: because we live in a fact checker society now.

Nextgrid 5y ago

Are you saying that people who don't believe in medicine and can put patients at risk should remain employed?

mannanj 5y ago
Are you Straw Manning and Ad Hominem attacking the author in the same post? Where did he say that these people don't believe in medicine? In fact, being a Doctor or Nurse by definition means believing in medicine and protecting the patient is your job. More so than some random hacker news stranger.
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  > Where did he say that these people don't believe in medicine? Refusing to take a vaccine that appears to be safe and reasonably effective despite being in a pandemic and in a field of work that both increases your risk of exposure and increases the potential damage caused by said exposure (spreading the disease around people who might be already weakened by other medical conditions) suggests they don't. > Ad Hominem attacking the author Could you elaborate? I don't see anything in my comment that's attacking the author directly rather than their claims which I totally disagree with.

mannanj 5y ago

The problem is fact checks would do the damage on a post like yours above, and by the time they're proven "wrong" have done the damage and moved on. it really is just information parroting/parading, and anyone defending it, is OK with it because its supporting their own "interpretation of the facts". It's wild how polarized we are, but not really, because these things are just further supporting the echo chamber of opinions one side already had.