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Mindfulness and meditation especially, /are/ supported by scientific findings. I don't know about yoga, but it's basically stretching and that's generally good

Mindfulness and meditation especially, /are/ supported by scientific findings. I don't know about yoga, but it's basically stretching and that's generally good for you.

alkonaut 5y ago
Sure I didn’t mean to imply that those fields in particular are all bogus, but rather that every new book on the subject has to bring a new angle and also often plays a bit fast and loose with scientific rigor. You’ll see books on why you should do yoga while juggling eggplants or mindfulness through playing quake and it might be some times a bit semi-scientific.
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  Fair point, yeah the novelties are just there for marketing and intrigue purpose, they probably don't do anything most of the time.
nemo44x 5y ago
So is taking a short nap in the afternoon. Pretty much these are all the same things. Some just get branded and packaged as a thing for consumers to make into a “lifestyle”.
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  They're not the same things, in the same way that healthy eating and exercise aren't - they're both systemically beneficial. Sleep and meditation are different and serve different purposes, and stretching is closer to exercise than anything else. They do get packaged into a lifestyle, but they also predate consumerism by thousands of years.
  - Jensson 5y ago
    > They're not the same things Evidence for this? Taking a break and relaxing your mind is beneficial, not sure why one form wouldn't substitute for another form.
    - beaconstudios 5y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_meditation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_meditation
      - Jensson 5y ago
        From the wiki article: > Of more than 3,000 scientific studies that were found in a comprehensive search of 17 relevant databases, only about 4% had randomised controlled trials (RCTs), which are designed to exclude the placebo effect. So 4% accounted for placebo. How many accounted for the "taking a break is healthy" effect? You need to show that it is different than just taking a break! Any evidence of this?
        beaconstudios 5y ago
        4% of 3000 is 120 - that's a lot of studies. You're the one claiming they're the same - where's your evidence that napping causes the effects identified as caused by meditation? If you want to believe meditation is the same as napping, you're free to do so. As somebody with a great deal of experience in both meditation and napping, my experience is that they're completely different - meditation is not just quietly relaxing, in fact it can be extremely difficult.
        Jensson 5y ago
        > 4% of 3000 is 120 - that's a lot of studies. Accounting for placebo is the minimum you should do, that doesn't mean that the rest of the study is well done. > You're the one claiming they're the same - where's your evidence that napping causes the effects identified as caused by meditation? You are the one coming with the extraordinary claim, that meditation does something fundamentally different. > meditation is not just quietly relaxing, in fact it can be extremely difficult. Right, meditation isn't even a defined concept, it is whatever you want it to be. In some practices it is strenuous as you say, in others it is just relaxing. Bundling all of that under a common name makes research around this topic even less trustworthy.
inDigiNeous 5y ago
Yoga means many things. There are systems that are developed over hundreds, if not thousands of years, which are systematically designed to elevate certain things in the practicioner, it's just not stretching, but can contain many very specific movements and breath techniques that open up certain channels in the body that would be hard to work with otherwise. Just wanted to clarify that a bit ..
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  I was referring to the most common Western-familiar forms of yoga. I'm not sure what "channels" would refer to materially - I'm of the opinion that effective techniques were discovered by trial and error and then religious explanations were applied to them, but there's nothing supernatural going on.
  - inDigiNeous 5y ago
    Well, I dont know either, I've practiced kundalini yoga for a long time, and read about the subject also, in many of the lineages there are stories of the original founder of some of the different types of yogas have received the information directly as some sort of "downloads", like from a higher place of existence or being, not just through trial and error. There is also the story of Shiva being the first yogi, which one telling can be read here: https://isha.sadhguru.org/yoga/history-of-yoga/the-first-yogi-adiyogi/ https://isha.sadhguru.org/yoga/history-of-yoga/the-first-yog... .. you know, but these are of course stories, who knows how they originated. Still, the yogis and holy men in India were considered to be like scientists today, studying the technology of the human beings, so these stories and things passed on are not just random findings but careful studying of the inner technologies on how we operate as humans.
TriNetra 5y ago
The original term yog/yoga has very little to do with stretching. Yog in Sanskrit means to unite with, and historically in India it's used to refer ashtanga yoga (raja yoga) which has eight limbs. It's a complete science [0] to master your body and mind, to experience different states of consciousness with meditation. > Yoga is the mastery of the activities of the mind-field. Then the seer rests in its true nature. 0: https://swamij.com/index-yoga-meditation-yoga-sutras.htm https://swamij.com/index-yoga-meditation-yoga-sutras.htm

Mindfulness and meditation especially, /are/ supported by scientific findings. I don't know about yoga, but it's basically stretching and that's generally good for you.

alkonaut 5y ago

Sure I didn’t mean to imply that those fields in particular are all bogus, but rather that every new book on the subject has to bring a new angle and also often plays a bit fast and loose with scientific rigor. You’ll see books on why you should do yoga while juggling eggplants or mindfulness through playing quake and it might be some times a bit semi-scientific.

beaconstudios 5y ago
Fair point, yeah the novelties are just there for marketing and intrigue purpose, they probably don't do anything most of the time.

nemo44x 5y ago

So is taking a short nap in the afternoon. Pretty much these are all the same things. Some just get branded and packaged as a thing for consumers to make into a “lifestyle”.

beaconstudios 5y ago
They're not the same things, in the same way that healthy eating and exercise aren't - they're both systemically beneficial. Sleep and meditation are different and serve different purposes, and stretching is closer to exercise than anything else. They do get packaged into a lifestyle, but they also predate consumerism by thousands of years.
- Jensson 5y ago
  > They're not the same things Evidence for this? Taking a break and relaxing your mind is beneficial, not sure why one form wouldn't substitute for another form.
  - beaconstudios 5y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_meditation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_meditation
    - Jensson 5y ago
      From the wiki article: > Of more than 3,000 scientific studies that were found in a comprehensive search of 17 relevant databases, only about 4% had randomised controlled trials (RCTs), which are designed to exclude the placebo effect. So 4% accounted for placebo. How many accounted for the "taking a break is healthy" effect? You need to show that it is different than just taking a break! Any evidence of this?
      - beaconstudios 5y ago
        4% of 3000 is 120 - that's a lot of studies. You're the one claiming they're the same - where's your evidence that napping causes the effects identified as caused by meditation? If you want to believe meditation is the same as napping, you're free to do so. As somebody with a great deal of experience in both meditation and napping, my experience is that they're completely different - meditation is not just quietly relaxing, in fact it can be extremely difficult.
        Jensson 5y ago
        > 4% of 3000 is 120 - that's a lot of studies. Accounting for placebo is the minimum you should do, that doesn't mean that the rest of the study is well done. > You're the one claiming they're the same - where's your evidence that napping causes the effects identified as caused by meditation? You are the one coming with the extraordinary claim, that meditation does something fundamentally different. > meditation is not just quietly relaxing, in fact it can be extremely difficult. Right, meditation isn't even a defined concept, it is whatever you want it to be. In some practices it is strenuous as you say, in others it is just relaxing. Bundling all of that under a common name makes research around this topic even less trustworthy.

inDigiNeous 5y ago

Yoga means many things. There are systems that are developed over hundreds, if not thousands of years, which are systematically designed to elevate certain things in the practicioner, it's just not stretching, but can contain many very specific movements and breath techniques that open up certain channels in the body that would be hard to work with otherwise. Just wanted to clarify that a bit ..

beaconstudios 5y ago
I was referring to the most common Western-familiar forms of yoga. I'm not sure what "channels" would refer to materially - I'm of the opinion that effective techniques were discovered by trial and error and then religious explanations were applied to them, but there's nothing supernatural going on.
- inDigiNeous 5y ago
  Well, I dont know either, I've practiced kundalini yoga for a long time, and read about the subject also, in many of the lineages there are stories of the original founder of some of the different types of yogas have received the information directly as some sort of "downloads", like from a higher place of existence or being, not just through trial and error. There is also the story of Shiva being the first yogi, which one telling can be read here: https://isha.sadhguru.org/yoga/history-of-yoga/the-first-yogi-adiyogi/ https://isha.sadhguru.org/yoga/history-of-yoga/the-first-yog... .. you know, but these are of course stories, who knows how they originated. Still, the yogis and holy men in India were considered to be like scientists today, studying the technology of the human beings, so these stories and things passed on are not just random findings but careful studying of the inner technologies on how we operate as humans.

TriNetra 5y ago

The original term yog/yoga has very little to do with stretching. Yog in Sanskrit means to unite with, and historically in India it's used to refer ashtanga yoga (raja yoga) which has eight limbs. It's a complete science [0] to master your body and mind, to experience different states of consciousness with meditation. > Yoga is the mastery of the activities of the mind-field. Then the seer rests in its true nature. 0: https://swamij.com/index-yoga-meditation-yoga-sutras.htm https://swamij.com/index-yoga-meditation-yoga-sutras.htm