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The big loophole is the provision for China's intervention in matters of "National Security". This is exactly what has been used to craft very vague language t

The big loophole is the provision for China's intervention in matters of "National Security". This is exactly what has been used to craft very vague language that basically allows authorities to treat anything that goes counter to China's official line as a "threat to National Security". It's so vague that self-censorship is now omnipresent in what was, just a few years ago, a bastion of freedom of speech in Asia. Newspaper and political figures are afraid of being targetted for their perceived dissent, and there is no real recourse, with pressure on judges to fall in line. It is a farce of course, but there will be no international action. The British have no recourse to enforce the treaty. China will invade HK with tanks before they release their tightening grip on it, and the world will watch and do nothing of course. It's not just democracy that is under threat in HK. There never was any to start with. It's plain freedom of speech that is under threat.

baybal2 5y ago
UK has all means to successfully use force, and secure its gains - that's the military reality on the ground. It has an amphibious force to land a division, more with requisitioned civilian vessels, and it has thermonuclear weapons to threaten chokepoints — more than enough to get the peninsula. UK is not a small military. With mobilised territorials, and first line conscripts, it will be as much as 10-12 divisions ready on short order.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Moodles 5y ago
- mrpopo 5y ago
  This would be the worst course of action. The Chinese population is propagandized enough and won't hesitate to go to war head-on against the West.
  - Moodles 5y ago
    It is an interesting question on how to deprogram the pro-communist party populous. All the brainwashed types I’ve ever spoken to believe the most insane things despite otherwise being intelligent people. E.g. Covid was made by the US to frame China. They also seem to conflate criticism of the CCP with Chinese people in general. I suspect many of the people behind the troll pro-China accounts commenting here are doing this (or they’re just paid). (Guys, CCP is anti-Chinese people. If you love China, don’t support this oppressive regime because one day they’ll come for you and your family.) How do we overdone this?
    - karmasimida 5y ago
      Try convince people vaccine is good/bad for them, you got a ticket for a ride already. Accept it is a fact that people who you thought is unreasonable thought precisely the same about you.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      > All the brainwashed types I’ve ever spoken to believe the most insane things despite otherwise being intelligent people. This is a general problem, not limited to China. A good percentage of the world population is ready to believe just about anything, no matter how outrageous. Witness the whole COVID denial movement as one example. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-people-fall-for-conspiracy-theories/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-people-fall-for-con...
      - Moodles 5y ago
        Right, but China is a particular severe problem.
        FpUser 5y ago
        Really, did you have chance to compare? When I read user comment section in CBC for example I loose all hope for humanity.
  - 5y ago
- hypertele-Xii 5y ago
  And risk world war 3, for Hong Kong? Never gonna happen.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  During the Yugoslavian war there was a stand-off between the Russians and some American troops around the Pristina airfield. "The following morning, Sunday 13 June, Clark arrived at Jackson's HQ in Skopje. It was pointed out to Clark that the Russians were isolated and could not be reinforced by air and that Russian support had been a vital part of getting a peace agreement; antagonising them would only be counterproductive. Clark refused to accept this and continued to order that the runway be blocked, claiming to be supported by the NATO Secretary-General.[2] Jackson refused to enforce Clark's orders, reportedly telling him "I'm not going to start the Third World War for you."[5] When again directly ordered to block the runway, Jackson suggested that British tanks and armoured cars would be more suitable, in the knowledge that this would almost certainly be vetoed by the British government. Clark agreed." What you are suggesting here is that the British would start World War III of their own accord and that Nato would follow them if they did so. Not a chance.
  - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
    A trivia of this was that the British soldiers on the ground were led by future famous musician James Blunt. Headline is probably exaggerated, but: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/how-james-blunt-saved-us-from-world-war-3-2134203.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/how-james-blu...
- throwaway4good 5y ago
  You must be joking?! UK to retake HK by force?
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  A land invasion by the Britain into China would be suicide in modern times lol. I have no doubt they are brave and talented soldiers and they would do some damage but in the end quantity has a quality all its own. NATO would not follow them into that madness.
- FpUser 5y ago
  I am all for it as long as you are in a front line. As far as I remember by your posts you are always itching for action. Do the world a favor. Put your money where your mouth is and sign up for active duty.
cameronh90 5y ago
Direct military action isn't the only recourse. It would be a pretty dangerous course of action. There are a lot of Chinese investments in the UK that could be seized, as well as information warfare, travel restrictions, trade restrictions and Cold War style proxy wars. Also things like giving HK BBO holders a route to British citizenship, which has high levels of support across the political spectrum and could probably be expanded further.

baybal2 5y ago

UK has all means to successfully use force, and secure its gains - that's the military reality on the ground. It has an amphibious force to land a division, more with requisitioned civilian vessels, and it has thermonuclear weapons to threaten chokepoints — more than enough to get the peninsula. UK is not a small military. With mobilised territorials, and first line conscripts, it will be as much as 10-12 divisions ready on short order.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Moodles 5y ago
mrpopo 5y ago
This would be the worst course of action. The Chinese population is propagandized enough and won't hesitate to go to war head-on against the West.
- Moodles 5y ago
  It is an interesting question on how to deprogram the pro-communist party populous. All the brainwashed types I’ve ever spoken to believe the most insane things despite otherwise being intelligent people. E.g. Covid was made by the US to frame China. They also seem to conflate criticism of the CCP with Chinese people in general. I suspect many of the people behind the troll pro-China accounts commenting here are doing this (or they’re just paid). (Guys, CCP is anti-Chinese people. If you love China, don’t support this oppressive regime because one day they’ll come for you and your family.) How do we overdone this?
  - karmasimida 5y ago
    Try convince people vaccine is good/bad for them, you got a ticket for a ride already. Accept it is a fact that people who you thought is unreasonable thought precisely the same about you.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    > All the brainwashed types I’ve ever spoken to believe the most insane things despite otherwise being intelligent people. This is a general problem, not limited to China. A good percentage of the world population is ready to believe just about anything, no matter how outrageous. Witness the whole COVID denial movement as one example. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-people-fall-for-conspiracy-theories/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-people-fall-for-con...
    - Moodles 5y ago
      Right, but China is a particular severe problem.
      - FpUser 5y ago
        Really, did you have chance to compare? When I read user comment section in CBC for example I loose all hope for humanity.
- 5y ago
hypertele-Xii 5y ago
And risk world war 3, for Hong Kong? Never gonna happen.
jacquesm 5y ago
During the Yugoslavian war there was a stand-off between the Russians and some American troops around the Pristina airfield. "The following morning, Sunday 13 June, Clark arrived at Jackson's HQ in Skopje. It was pointed out to Clark that the Russians were isolated and could not be reinforced by air and that Russian support had been a vital part of getting a peace agreement; antagonising them would only be counterproductive. Clark refused to accept this and continued to order that the runway be blocked, claiming to be supported by the NATO Secretary-General.[2] Jackson refused to enforce Clark's orders, reportedly telling him "I'm not going to start the Third World War for you."[5] When again directly ordered to block the runway, Jackson suggested that British tanks and armoured cars would be more suitable, in the knowledge that this would almost certainly be vetoed by the British government. Clark agreed." What you are suggesting here is that the British would start World War III of their own accord and that Nato would follow them if they did so. Not a chance.
- bellyfullofbac 5y ago
  A trivia of this was that the British soldiers on the ground were led by future famous musician James Blunt. Headline is probably exaggerated, but: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/how-james-blunt-saved-us-from-world-war-3-2134203.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/how-james-blu...
throwaway4good 5y ago
You must be joking?! UK to retake HK by force?
stjohnswarts 5y ago
A land invasion by the Britain into China would be suicide in modern times lol. I have no doubt they are brave and talented soldiers and they would do some damage but in the end quantity has a quality all its own. NATO would not follow them into that madness.
FpUser 5y ago
I am all for it as long as you are in a front line. As far as I remember by your posts you are always itching for action. Do the world a favor. Put your money where your mouth is and sign up for active duty.

cameronh90 5y ago

Direct military action isn't the only recourse. It would be a pretty dangerous course of action. There are a lot of Chinese investments in the UK that could be seized, as well as information warfare, travel restrictions, trade restrictions and Cold War style proxy wars. Also things like giving HK BBO holders a route to British citizenship, which has high levels of support across the political spectrum and could probably be expanded further.