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Hong Kong pro-democracy Stand News shuts down after police raid, arrests
- hans789 5y ago
- qybaz 5y ago
- schleck8 5y agoWhat is propaganda about this story? Not once have I read a noticeably biased piece from Reuters. That's because they are a wire service and sell to both sides of the political spectrum (including chinese state media by the way, you'll find reuters cited as source or they use the pre-made articles from reuters' news wire) https://africa.cgtn.com/author/reuters/ https://africa.cgtn.com/author/reuters/ or https://america.cgtn.com/anchors-corresp/reuters https://america.cgtn.com/anchors-corresp/reuters
- throwaway4good 5y agoWhen it comes to coverage of major power conflicts between USA, China, Russia, India … Reuters absolutely has the bias and perspective of the west.
- schleck8 5y agoCare to link to an example or two?
- hans1234 5y ago
- throwaway4good 5y ago
- treeman79 5y ago
- dang 5y agoAttacking another user because of their ethnicity will get you banned here. Please don't do anything like this on HN again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- throwaway4good 5y agoWe can discuss stuff like this ... at least some times.
- _2okt 5y ago[flagged]
- dang 5y agoAttacking another user because of their ethnicity will get you banned here. Please don't do anything like this on HN again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- dang 5y agoIt's not necessarily off topic. Past explanations here: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=political%20overlap%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...
- barney54 5y ago15-20 years ago I naively thought that many of the Big Tech companies would stand against this type of censorship. Sadly I was wrong and didn’t understand how important it was to have access to the Chinese market and the importance of China’s low-cost manufacturing for these companies as well. Today, the Big Tech companies might not actively support this kind of censorship, but they aren’t aggressively working against it as I thought they would 15 years ago.
- causi 5y agoFifteen years ago big tech's bottom line depended on a lack of censorship. Now it depends on censoring in some areas. Treating companies as anything other than barely-restrained sociopaths is always a mistake.
- Moodles 5y ago[flagged]
- sneak 5y agoIt's not just access to the Chinese consumer market; almost every Apple device is manufactured in China, too. China has jurisdiction over the factories that make virtually everything that powers the US economy.
- wk_end 5y agoAs time goes by it’s going to become clearer and clearer that selling out western manufacturing to exploit cheap Chinese labour - a project endorsed and embraced by both major parties in Washington - was the single worst decision in the history of liberal democracy. It’s hollowed out both middle America and the American middle class, and instead of bringing democracy to China as Neo-liberals predicted, it’s instead enabled and is leading to the hegemony of the largest and most powerful totalitarian regime mankind’s ever known.
- octopoc 5y agoThis is yet another violation of the Sino-British Joint Declaration, the treaty between China and the U.K. defining how Hong Kong will be handed over to China[1]: > Hong Kong would maintain its existing governing and economic systems separate from that of mainland China under the principle of "one country, two systems". The West needs to realize: China does not uphold its own treaties. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-British_Joint_Declaration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-British_Joint_Declaration
- throwaway4good 5y agoExactly how is this a breach of the agreement? Formally this is done by the HK government/police. Is a breach of the general principle of two systems, or is there a more specific clause that is breached?
- bigbillheck 5y ago> The West needs to realize: China does not uphold its own treaties Does any major power?
- EGreg 5y agoAsk the Native Americans Or these guys: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/world/asia/white-house-faults-gop-senators-letter-to-irans-leaders.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/world/asia/white-house-fa... Or this: https://www.npr.org/2020/01/06/793895401/iraqi-parliament-votes-to-expel-u-s-troops-trump-threatens-sanctions https://www.npr.org/2020/01/06/793895401/iraqi-parliament-vo... Yet just because someone acts badly, doesn’t mean we the People should lower standards for the whole world.
- throwawayHK 5y agoThe big loophole is the provision for China's intervention in matters of "National Security". This is exactly what has been used to craft very vague language that basically allows authorities to treat anything that goes counter to China's official line as a "threat to National Security". It's so vague that self-censorship is now omnipresent in what was, just a few years ago, a bastion of freedom of speech in Asia. Newspaper and political figures are afraid of being targetted for their perceived dissent, and there is no real recourse, with pressure on judges to fall in line. It is a farce of course, but there will be no international action. The British have no recourse to enforce the treaty. China will invade HK with tanks before they release their tightening grip on it, and the world will watch and do nothing of course. It's not just democracy that is under threat in HK. There never was any to start with. It's plain freedom of speech that is under threat.
- FpUser 5y ago>"The West needs to realize: China does not uphold its own treaties" "The West" had long realized that the might makes right. Once country has achieve certain level of power the only thing that makes those to adhere to some treaty is their mutual willingness. If country does not see any it can and will ignore it. There is no abstract enforcer up above that can make parties of that level stick to the agreement.
- guilhas 5y agoRussia withdraws from Open Skies Treaty after US withdrawal https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/1/15/russia-withdraws-from-open-skies-treaty-after-us-departure https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/1/15/russia-withdraws-fr...
- wiz21c 5y agoI don't like the "pro democrcay" thing... Isn't it more like "pro occidental/western" countries versus "pro chinese/urss/oriental" countries ? When used that way, democracy sounds like an absolutely good thing which it is not; it's just a way to organize power...
- jacquesm 5y agoDo you have a better alternative?
- alimw 5y agoThat as may be, the issue here is freedom of speech.
- koonsolo 5y agoExactly. And freedom of speech is very important in a democracy, and unwanted in a dictatorship.
- koonsolo 5y agoA country can either have a democracy or a dictatorship. Unless you know a 3rd option, I would love to hear it. And as history has proven many times, dictatorships never end well.
- albertopv 5y ago"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time". Democracy is one of the few things to be an absolute good thing. It have many flaws, but still I would't live in a dictatorship like the one established by URSS or Chinese Communist Party, where you could easily disappear if you say something troublesome for people in power. This is not just power organization, it's plain survival.
- DemocracyFTW 5y ago"Xism is not good or bad; it's just a way to organize power". Excuse me I gotta puke.
- mensetmanusman 5y agoIn Judo one uses the momentum of the aggressor against them, and I wonder if the west could do something analogous in this situation. E.g. quietly accept the new oppression, but actively seek out and assist anyone in HK who wants to leave to gain access to high quality human capital and good will. The resulting collapse of HK as it empties could be shown to everyone interacting with China that this could be their future.
- enaaem 5y agoIn the book “A blue print for revolution” they described how you can use a regimes paranoia against them. The best way is through humor. A great example is the Winnie the Pooh meme. The meme wasn’t even that funny but the CCP’s reaction to it is absolutely hilarious. It made Winnie the Pooh an anti CCP symbol and it raised global awareness of the CCP’s authoritarianism. Winnie the Pooh won’t overthrow the CCP by itself, but the process of revolution is slow and you have to play the long game.
- mikkelam 5y agoHong Kong is over. It is quickly becoming a real-estate grab for mainland Chinese. It won't be long before this incredibly rich and deeply unique culture will die off. It really is quite sad. I don't think there is anything that can be done. These people can fight for their rights, but they won't get any help and it will only ruin their lives. Western media will praise these fighters of justice, but will not do anything to help.
- guilhas 5y agoThe West needs to realize Hong Kong is a part of China, that was leased to the UK for 100 years The West has no more say in it than China has a say in Catalonia or Scotland independence, Texas or California secession. Or their governing models https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handover_of_Hong_Kong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handover_of_Hong_Kong To the bigger question, since world border defining wars have become an historic unacceptable concept, how much power should be given to smaller subgroups into shaping their own, and the larger group, policy and borders
- DemocracyFTW 5y agoWhat you say applies to the Kowloon New Territories north of Boundary Street and the outlying islands (and it wasn't 100 but 99 years but I digress).[1] It does not apply to Kowloon south of Boundary Street and Victoria / Hong Kong Island. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Territories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Territories