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And there's a huge disparity between those who own their own homes and those who rent. It's close to Feudalism. I'd note that Doctors and Engineers don't reall

And there's a huge disparity between those who own their own homes and those who rent. It's close to Feudalism. I'd note that Doctors and Engineers don't really get high salaries compared to the US though. Europe is all about landlordism and inheritance.

MichaelRazum 5y ago
You can earn quite a lot as a Doctor (compared to the other population). The situation was much better about 10 years ago on the real estate market. The main problem in my opinion regarding Germany is that it becomes really hard to accumulate wealth, you have high taxes, real estate prices are high and the consumer prices are rising. So inheritance plays a really big role.
- luckylion 5y ago
  > The main problem in my opinion regarding Germany is that it becomes really hard to accumulate wealth That's by design, isn't it? You're not really supposed to build up private wealth, you're supposed to fund social security systems and rely on them when in trouble. I remember some high-ranking politician (I believe SPD, but my memory is weak) said in regards to Germany's low personal wealth that in Germany your wealth is having a social system you can rely on (and thus you don't need to have personal wealth).
avgcorrection 5y ago
Still going on about the “landed aristocracy”, I see. No developed country serves working people. And it isn’t made to serve the aristocracy, either. Businesses and business interests rule over all. That much the US and the apparent monolith of Europe has in common, at least. The only difference is that professionals—those with “careers”—are probably paid less in Europe in general compared to their peers in the US. Which is probably the reason why there is so much seething on HN about how Europe is oppressing people—Europe (or at least Western/Northern Europe) is relatively egalitarian overall, but tech nerds aren’t paid five times as much as their plumber, which is a real injustice.
- hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
  > Which is probably the reason why there is so much seething on HN about how Europe is oppressing people Well, that's something new for me. On the opposite, I see many people complain about (1) medical care costs in the USA, and how the system is designed in a wrong way - in Europe, you can either pay (much less than in the USA) or get healthcare for free, (2) no guaranteed PTO - in Europe, you have guaranteed 26 days + public holidays, (3) extremely high cost of higher education (in most of Europe is free/quite cheap), (4) related to that, student debt getting out of control (this is showing up often on HN), (5) inhuman approach to parental leave - you often need to go back to your factory a few weeks after giving birth to your baby! FB boasts of 4 months - how generous of them! In many European countries you get a year. Moreover, there are laws giving similar rights to fathers.
  - avgcorrection 5y ago
    For sure. There are both types here.
  - 999900000999 5y ago
    >you often need to go back to your factory a few weeks after giving birth to your baby! Weeks ? Not in America! >A day after giving birth, I was asked back to work. America needs paid family leave https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/27/america-needs-paid-family-leave https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/27/americ... I posted that article the other day, didn't get as much traction as the DoorDash delivery story. You very much do have a nightmare for poor people in America, you can do everything right and stub your toe, and end up $30,000 in medical debt overnight. People die all the time just because they can't afford healthcare. It can actually be cheaper, assuming you can manage getting on a plane and all that to fly to London, and treat your stub toe there versus treating it here. It's absolutely ridiculous what we put working people through in America. Mental health care is also extremely expensive, for example, your concerned about your spending habits. Your looking to therapy, but then you realize a therapist will cost upwards of $1,600 a month. Or maybe you lose your job and can no longer afford to pay $3,000 a month for various psychiatric medicines. It's as if we're all living in a demented Dickinson's novel, you get fired on Monday, your daughter loses her health insurance Tuesday, and your daughter may die since she ends up skipping essential medical care. Of course we have half-assed stop gaps, for example, if after losing your job you have a spare $1,500 a month you can keep your employee health insurance. Cobra as it's called is everything wrong with America. Even with a job, it's cheaper for me to pay out of pocket for health care. I have this luxury since I know Pythons, but when I was younger I just didn't go to the doctor. This caused all types of strange issues which I'm still working on.

MichaelRazum 5y ago

You can earn quite a lot as a Doctor (compared to the other population). The situation was much better about 10 years ago on the real estate market. The main problem in my opinion regarding Germany is that it becomes really hard to accumulate wealth, you have high taxes, real estate prices are high and the consumer prices are rising. So inheritance plays a really big role.

luckylion 5y ago
> The main problem in my opinion regarding Germany is that it becomes really hard to accumulate wealth That's by design, isn't it? You're not really supposed to build up private wealth, you're supposed to fund social security systems and rely on them when in trouble. I remember some high-ranking politician (I believe SPD, but my memory is weak) said in regards to Germany's low personal wealth that in Germany your wealth is having a social system you can rely on (and thus you don't need to have personal wealth).

avgcorrection 5y ago

Still going on about the “landed aristocracy”, I see. No developed country serves working people. And it isn’t made to serve the aristocracy, either. Businesses and business interests rule over all. That much the US and the apparent monolith of Europe has in common, at least. The only difference is that professionals—those with “careers”—are probably paid less in Europe in general compared to their peers in the US. Which is probably the reason why there is so much seething on HN about how Europe is oppressing people—Europe (or at least Western/Northern Europe) is relatively egalitarian overall, but tech nerds aren’t paid five times as much as their plumber, which is a real injustice.

hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
> Which is probably the reason why there is so much seething on HN about how Europe is oppressing people Well, that's something new for me. On the opposite, I see many people complain about (1) medical care costs in the USA, and how the system is designed in a wrong way - in Europe, you can either pay (much less than in the USA) or get healthcare for free, (2) no guaranteed PTO - in Europe, you have guaranteed 26 days + public holidays, (3) extremely high cost of higher education (in most of Europe is free/quite cheap), (4) related to that, student debt getting out of control (this is showing up often on HN), (5) inhuman approach to parental leave - you often need to go back to your factory a few weeks after giving birth to your baby! FB boasts of 4 months - how generous of them! In many European countries you get a year. Moreover, there are laws giving similar rights to fathers.
- avgcorrection 5y ago
  For sure. There are both types here.
- 999900000999 5y ago
  >you often need to go back to your factory a few weeks after giving birth to your baby! Weeks ? Not in America! >A day after giving birth, I was asked back to work. America needs paid family leave https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/27/america-needs-paid-family-leave https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/27/americ... I posted that article the other day, didn't get as much traction as the DoorDash delivery story. You very much do have a nightmare for poor people in America, you can do everything right and stub your toe, and end up $30,000 in medical debt overnight. People die all the time just because they can't afford healthcare. It can actually be cheaper, assuming you can manage getting on a plane and all that to fly to London, and treat your stub toe there versus treating it here. It's absolutely ridiculous what we put working people through in America. Mental health care is also extremely expensive, for example, your concerned about your spending habits. Your looking to therapy, but then you realize a therapist will cost upwards of $1,600 a month. Or maybe you lose your job and can no longer afford to pay $3,000 a month for various psychiatric medicines. It's as if we're all living in a demented Dickinson's novel, you get fired on Monday, your daughter loses her health insurance Tuesday, and your daughter may die since she ends up skipping essential medical care. Of course we have half-assed stop gaps, for example, if after losing your job you have a spare $1,500 a month you can keep your employee health insurance. Cobra as it's called is everything wrong with America. Even with a job, it's cheaper for me to pay out of pocket for health care. I have this luxury since I know Pythons, but when I was younger I just didn't go to the doctor. This caused all types of strange issues which I'm still working on.