5 ms·

Recycling materials is often not less energy intensive than the original production.

bmitc 5y ago
That's why reduce and reuse are before it. Recycling is not about emissions and energy. It's about trying to reduce the amount of stuff going into landfills and our environment (like plastics and electronic waste) and trying to reduce how much new material we're stripping out of the earth.
- SubiculumCode 5y ago
  Im saying recycle can probably be dropped altogether.
  - titzer 5y ago
    Aluminum, glass, and steel are highly recyclable. The biosphere is incredibly good at recycling raw materials. It is not particularly good at recycling the materials that we produce.
    - bmitc 5y ago
      > The biosphere is incredibly good at recycling raw materials. That's not entirely true in a subtle but impactful way. Organic material such as food scraps, wood, paper, etc. do breakdown in landfills, but they emit methane as they do so. If these are instead composted, where the breakdown process releases much less methane, instead of being thrown away, then methane emissions can be drastically cutdown if everyone did it. Further, compost acts as a carbon sink. In fact, if composting saw 100% take up, it would reduce emissions by several whole percentage points. https://www.compostingcouncil.org/page/ClimateChangeBenefits https://www.compostingcouncil.org/page/ClimateChangeBenefits https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200224-how-cutting-your-food-waste-can-help-the-climate https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200224-how-cutting-your... https://www.sanjoseca.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/198/636609540953170000 https://www.sanjoseca.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/198/636... https://scraplab.princeton.edu/2020/03/the-composter-how-much-can-composting-help-in-solving-the-climate-challenge/ https://scraplab.princeton.edu/2020/03/the-composter-how-muc...
      - titzer 5y ago
        I meant at an atomic and molecular level. You're right that decomposing in the wrong way will produce different waste products, like methane, which is worse in the short term than CO2 (IIRC, better in the 80+ year time frame). If we look at the biosphere, the vast majority of elements that make up a given lifeform get recycled within months or years. If they weren't, the waste products would accumulate in the environment. We do see that in geological strata, e.g. limestone deposits, and fossil fuels. Those deposits generally took millions upon millions of years to accumulate because those leftover waste products were pretty minuscule compared to the biomass turning over. We're producing waste faster than any other biological process in Earth's history, and it's new kinds of waste that no existing processes (other than defaults like erosion and UV irradiation) break down and recycle. And as a result those waste products are accumulating fast in the environment and unfortunately doing a ton of damage to the many intricate ecosystems that we indirectly depend on. Particularly plastic, forever chemicals, and an overwhelming amount of basically everything. I support composting and produce as little landfill waste as I can get away with. I "recycle" (as much as putting something in the recycle bin is actually recycling) plastics, glass, aluminum, paper, etc. I compost all my food waste, and the only thing I put in the regular trash is stuff that I can't reasonably clean and recycle (e.g. tainted food wrappers). My composting is pretty unsophisticated. I just toss it out into the woods, spreading it out on purpose, as opposed to concentrating it in a compost pile. The Sun's UV will disinfect and being open to the air will dessiccate it before it is broken down by microbiota and insects eventually. I am slightly worried about infecting/breeding/spreading dangerous bacteria, particularly from meat products (which I make an extra effort to never waste) so I am not yet composting to produce soil for my garden.
foo_barrio 5y ago
Also, hardly ever do you get the thing you started with. Clear glass bottles are not recycled into more clear glass bottles. IIRC the recycled class glass is not clear enough and you end up with lower quality glass. Car tire rubber get recycled into other things (unless they get retreaded). I think aluminum cans are one of the few things that get recycled into more aluminum cans (minus some % loss).
- bmitc 5y ago
  Why does that matter? Is there an alternative?
  - aembleton 5y ago
    Cleaning the glass bottles out and re-using them.
  - foo_barrio 5y ago
    Yes reduce and reuse. Recycling is the last the things to consider. Clean the bottles and re-use them. Don't crush them and spend energy making something else with that material.
    - bmitc 5y ago
      That was already pointed out, so I was confused by the comment chain. Of course reduce and reuse should be the priority, but the comment chain seemed to imply that recycling isn’t perfect, so it shouldn’t be done, as the person you responded to explicitly suggested in their other comment.
      - foo_barrio 5y ago
        I was attempting to expand on "why" recycling is the last thing to do.
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  Who cares if their drink is in clear glass as long as it's clean?

That's why reduce and reuse are before it. Recycling is not about emissions and energy. It's about trying to reduce the amount of stuff going into landfills and our environment (like plastics and electronic waste) and trying to reduce how much new material we're stripping out of the earth.

SubiculumCode 5y ago
Im saying recycle can probably be dropped altogether.
- titzer 5y ago
  Aluminum, glass, and steel are highly recyclable. The biosphere is incredibly good at recycling raw materials. It is not particularly good at recycling the materials that we produce.
  - bmitc 5y ago
    > The biosphere is incredibly good at recycling raw materials. That's not entirely true in a subtle but impactful way. Organic material such as food scraps, wood, paper, etc. do breakdown in landfills, but they emit methane as they do so. If these are instead composted, where the breakdown process releases much less methane, instead of being thrown away, then methane emissions can be drastically cutdown if everyone did it. Further, compost acts as a carbon sink. In fact, if composting saw 100% take up, it would reduce emissions by several whole percentage points. https://www.compostingcouncil.org/page/ClimateChangeBenefits https://www.compostingcouncil.org/page/ClimateChangeBenefits https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200224-how-cutting-your-food-waste-can-help-the-climate https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200224-how-cutting-your... https://www.sanjoseca.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/198/636609540953170000 https://www.sanjoseca.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/198/636... https://scraplab.princeton.edu/2020/03/the-composter-how-much-can-composting-help-in-solving-the-climate-challenge/ https://scraplab.princeton.edu/2020/03/the-composter-how-muc...
    - titzer 5y ago
      I meant at an atomic and molecular level. You're right that decomposing in the wrong way will produce different waste products, like methane, which is worse in the short term than CO2 (IIRC, better in the 80+ year time frame). If we look at the biosphere, the vast majority of elements that make up a given lifeform get recycled within months or years. If they weren't, the waste products would accumulate in the environment. We do see that in geological strata, e.g. limestone deposits, and fossil fuels. Those deposits generally took millions upon millions of years to accumulate because those leftover waste products were pretty minuscule compared to the biomass turning over. We're producing waste faster than any other biological process in Earth's history, and it's new kinds of waste that no existing processes (other than defaults like erosion and UV irradiation) break down and recycle. And as a result those waste products are accumulating fast in the environment and unfortunately doing a ton of damage to the many intricate ecosystems that we indirectly depend on. Particularly plastic, forever chemicals, and an overwhelming amount of basically everything. I support composting and produce as little landfill waste as I can get away with. I "recycle" (as much as putting something in the recycle bin is actually recycling) plastics, glass, aluminum, paper, etc. I compost all my food waste, and the only thing I put in the regular trash is stuff that I can't reasonably clean and recycle (e.g. tainted food wrappers). My composting is pretty unsophisticated. I just toss it out into the woods, spreading it out on purpose, as opposed to concentrating it in a compost pile. The Sun's UV will disinfect and being open to the air will dessiccate it before it is broken down by microbiota and insects eventually. I am slightly worried about infecting/breeding/spreading dangerous bacteria, particularly from meat products (which I make an extra effort to never waste) so I am not yet composting to produce soil for my garden.

foo_barrio 5y ago

Also, hardly ever do you get the thing you started with. Clear glass bottles are not recycled into more clear glass bottles. IIRC the recycled class glass is not clear enough and you end up with lower quality glass. Car tire rubber get recycled into other things (unless they get retreaded). I think aluminum cans are one of the few things that get recycled into more aluminum cans (minus some % loss).

bmitc 5y ago
Why does that matter? Is there an alternative?
- aembleton 5y ago
  Cleaning the glass bottles out and re-using them.
- foo_barrio 5y ago
  Yes reduce and reuse. Recycling is the last the things to consider. Clean the bottles and re-use them. Don't crush them and spend energy making something else with that material.
  - bmitc 5y ago
    That was already pointed out, so I was confused by the comment chain. Of course reduce and reuse should be the priority, but the comment chain seemed to imply that recycling isn’t perfect, so it shouldn’t be done, as the person you responded to explicitly suggested in their other comment.
    - foo_barrio 5y ago
      I was attempting to expand on "why" recycling is the last thing to do.
stjohnswarts 5y ago
Who cares if their drink is in clear glass as long as it's clean?