4 ms·

Well, if you are on the higher end, you probably don't want to share with those on the lower end, simply because 1 of 3 things will happen. 1. They ask for a r

Well, if you are on the higher end, you probably don't want to share with those on the lower end, simply because 1 of 3 things will happen. 1. They ask for a raise and don’t get it. You lose a team member when they leave. 2. You can’t get a raise because your boss is forced to give your colleague a raise and doesn’t want to have to hand out raises. 3. Your colleague stews and resents you. People say it won’t happen, but I have heard a ton of complaining about how X earns so much and they don’t deserve it from co-workers.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
lotsofpulp 5y ago
Yes, everyone likes to think they are top 10% (or even above average). That is what I meant by my last sentence.
zdragnar 5y ago
I have witnessed number 3 in action. My first programming job introduced pay bands a few years in (it was a young company that grew from small to a few hundred at that point) and word got around about the people who were already earning above the band for their level. The mood around those who were already above their band went from "yeah they're okay devs" to "wtf, those guys aren't nearly good enough" pretty quickly. I'm just happy to be one of those that got a good raise to meet the bottom of my payband and not the other way around.
inetknght 5y ago
> 1. They ask for a raise and don’t get it. You lose a team member when they leave. Yes and that should be a lesson to pay the whole team more. > 2. You can’t get a raise because your boss is forced to give your colleague a raise and doesn’t want to have to hand out raises. Your colleague wasn't paid well, asked to get paid better, and got it. Now you're said because you can't continue to get paid more relative to your colleague? Lose your greed and grow some empathy in its place. > 3. Your colleague stews and resents you. People say it won’t happen, but I have heard a ton of complaining about how X earns so much and they don’t deserve it from co-workers. Then work with them to explain how and why you deserve more than your colleagues. Otherwise, they might be right about you not deserving it. You getting what you don't deserve means, by your own logic, that they're not getting what they do deserve.
- imgabe 5y ago
  > Otherwise, they might be right about you not deserving it. #3 results from a fundamental confusion people have that pay is based on people "deserving" something. Like it's an expression of virtue or your worth as a person or a reward for doing something good. It's not. You're paid based on supply and demand and your negotiating skills, nothing more. It's not a golden star from your teacher that you're a nice boy. It's whatever you were able to convince the company the monetary value of your contribution is worth. That's all. Get over whether someone deserves this or that. I'll solve this once and for all: nobody deserves anything. You're responsible for figuring out how to provide value and capture it.
  - inetknght 5y ago
    I do believe in getting paid what's deserved and what's deserved changes as the market changes. What's unfortunate is that people aren't willing to see the change go downward ever and then also argue that others can't go upward because... well then you yourself "can't" go upward. What's deserved is for people to be compensated fairly. If the company is compensating someone unfairly and can't compensate someone fairly because of then, then that is a definite and clear problem. Whatever your definition of fair is, whether that's "deserving" or "market forces", it's still the same argument.
    - noasaservice 5y ago
      > I do believe in getting paid what's deserved and what's deserved changes as the market changes. Well there's 2 major theories of thought about that. One is that the holders of the capital decide how much to pay, and they make the bulk of the market. You get paid what you negotiate. The other is that the worker will never be paid what they are worth. In other words, their surplus value is equal to the new value created by workers in excess of their own labor-cost, which is appropriated by the capitalist as profit when products are sold. And in this country, we're seeing the beginning of the second with Antiwork and the Great Resignation. Many of us Zennials are really tired.
    - imgabe 5y ago
jwmoz 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

lotsofpulp 5y ago

Yes, everyone likes to think they are top 10% (or even above average). That is what I meant by my last sentence.

zdragnar 5y ago

I have witnessed number 3 in action. My first programming job introduced pay bands a few years in (it was a young company that grew from small to a few hundred at that point) and word got around about the people who were already earning above the band for their level. The mood around those who were already above their band went from "yeah they're okay devs" to "wtf, those guys aren't nearly good enough" pretty quickly. I'm just happy to be one of those that got a good raise to meet the bottom of my payband and not the other way around.

inetknght 5y ago

> 1. They ask for a raise and don’t get it. You lose a team member when they leave. Yes and that should be a lesson to pay the whole team more. > 2. You can’t get a raise because your boss is forced to give your colleague a raise and doesn’t want to have to hand out raises. Your colleague wasn't paid well, asked to get paid better, and got it. Now you're said because you can't continue to get paid more relative to your colleague? Lose your greed and grow some empathy in its place. > 3. Your colleague stews and resents you. People say it won’t happen, but I have heard a ton of complaining about how X earns so much and they don’t deserve it from co-workers. Then work with them to explain how and why you deserve more than your colleagues. Otherwise, they might be right about you not deserving it. You getting what you don't deserve means, by your own logic, that they're not getting what they do deserve.

imgabe 5y ago
> Otherwise, they might be right about you not deserving it. #3 results from a fundamental confusion people have that pay is based on people "deserving" something. Like it's an expression of virtue or your worth as a person or a reward for doing something good. It's not. You're paid based on supply and demand and your negotiating skills, nothing more. It's not a golden star from your teacher that you're a nice boy. It's whatever you were able to convince the company the monetary value of your contribution is worth. That's all. Get over whether someone deserves this or that. I'll solve this once and for all: nobody deserves anything. You're responsible for figuring out how to provide value and capture it.
- inetknght 5y ago
  I do believe in getting paid what's deserved and what's deserved changes as the market changes. What's unfortunate is that people aren't willing to see the change go downward ever and then also argue that others can't go upward because... well then you yourself "can't" go upward. What's deserved is for people to be compensated fairly. If the company is compensating someone unfairly and can't compensate someone fairly because of then, then that is a definite and clear problem. Whatever your definition of fair is, whether that's "deserving" or "market forces", it's still the same argument.
  - noasaservice 5y ago
    > I do believe in getting paid what's deserved and what's deserved changes as the market changes. Well there's 2 major theories of thought about that. One is that the holders of the capital decide how much to pay, and they make the bulk of the market. You get paid what you negotiate. The other is that the worker will never be paid what they are worth. In other words, their surplus value is equal to the new value created by workers in excess of their own labor-cost, which is appropriated by the capitalist as profit when products are sold. And in this country, we're seeing the beginning of the second with Antiwork and the Great Resignation. Many of us Zennials are really tired.
  - imgabe 5y ago

jwmoz 5y ago