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I've been estranged from my dad for decades - I even changed my name when I reached adulthood, to further separate myself from him. By outward appearances it wa

I've been estranged from my dad for decades - I even changed my name when I reached adulthood, to further separate myself from him. By outward appearances it was the perfect nuclear family - father a successful and connected politician with charming perfect children and a doting wife. Inside though, he was a drunkard, a narcissist, horribly abusive on every level to my mother, and otherwise absent in my childhood when he wasn't busy talking about himself and his successes. All that said, now as a parent myself, I feel sorry for him. I consider his childhood and realize he didn't have a chance - he was screwed up from the very beginning. Parenting is darn hard and even if you spent your early years baby-sitting or as a camp counselor or something, it still doesn't prepare you for when they are your own and you have responsibility for them 24x7 from now into eternity. Throw in an unhappy marriage or a failed career and is it any wonder so many parents end up estranged from their children? So, yeah, the brief article matches my own experiences and those of other people I've spoken with who are estranged from their parents. I think about it regularly, as if I mistreated my children in the same way I can't say I would really blame them for not wanting to associate with me in adulthood when they are able to make that decision for themselves. As my kids have gotten older, I've even made a point to explain to them that every parent is just a human who is mostly winging it trying the best they can -- and that's the thing kids tend to realize, IE: my parent might not have known what to do, but if they showed love and concern, that tends to trump any mistakes.

zuj 5y ago
> every parent is just a human who is mostly winging it trying the best they can This is an eye opening statement. Often as a kid, parents tend to look like gods and superheros because they are doing things which are impossible for us. As we age we tend to notice the shortcomings both from the current situation as they are ageing and from our child hood which we have better understanding now. Again, second order thinking helps a lot here I guess.
- poulsbohemian 5y ago
  Maybe it's just my outlook - I sit in meetings with adults and have to remind myself that we are all just children in overgrown bodies. Sure, some will have had experiences that have taught empathy, communication, etc, but most of us are still prone to the occasional temper tantrum or emotional outburst. And that's ok. Rather than seeing it in a derogatory way, I think it helps us all stay humble and open minded toward each other. With my kids - they are at an age where they are starting to realize that I'm human, with foibles. Better to admit that and build trust that they should heed my advice anyway, as a more experienced human, than have them distrust out of spite that I'm the parent and they are the teen.
  - jiggawatts 5y ago
    "Daycare for adults" is how a coworker described a particularly dysfunctional government agency.
    - zuj 5y ago
      LOL! Isn't that every dysfunctional organisation ?
jkhdigital 5y ago
> All that said, now as a parent myself, I feel sorry for him. Slowly but surely, everything I thought I knew about my parents has changed now that I am a parent. I used to harbor bitter resentments against my mother, and wanted her to know how she failed me… now I just see an old woman who gave what she could to her five children and is just as much a “beloved child of God” as each of them. I am also acutely aware that, as long as I’m not abusive, absent or wildly inconsistent, my behavior as a parent is probably more important as my child’s future model of parent behavior when it comes time to raise the next generation. I like to joke that I insist on my son giving his grandmother a hug each time he sees her as a favor to my wife: down payment on more grandchild hugs for her in the future.
- poulsbohemian 5y ago
  My friend, I think you've got this humanity stuff figured out.
- igetspam 5y ago
  I wish I'd been so lucky. As I've grown as a parent, I've unconsciously put my mother under a microscope and keep discovering that, while she tried, she failed. We were once very close but as I've gotten older, I can compare and contrast her behavior with mine. We all suffered emotional abuses (and I've my sisters repeat the patterns, to varying degrees) but I also suffered physically, which is then took out on my younger siblings. And my mother was the good parent. My father (a term I use only to describe lineage) was mean and heavy handed. Belts were common, switches less so but not out of the realm of possibility. He was violent with my mother, his next wife's, my oldest sister and me. Probably more but those are the ones I remember. To the world outside, he was a good person but to me, he's both my demon and my motivation to be good person, a good father and a good spouse. Ask him and he'll tell you that things we witnessed never happened. The tray of brownies fell, he didn't throw it. That burn mark on the ceiling is just there; he threw the iron "in the general direction because if I'd wanted to hit her with it, I would have." We've been estranged since I was in 17. We agreed to let him back in once. Lasted six months. Never again. He doesn't know where I live and unless my kid wants to meet him some day, he'll never be given the opportunity. My mother and I finally fell out because of COVID. There were other things going on but COVID was the last one. I drew a line that said unless you get vaccinated, you can't come in my home. (She got every flu shot and vaccine, until this one.) She chose politics, I chose to protect my kid and wife. Since she won't be visiting ever again, we decided the easiest path was to just stop talking. If my kid wants to meet "mean nanna" some day, I'll arrange it but my wife and kid come first. I live my mother. It's an unfortunate outcome. My father... I couldn't care less. He's been dead to me for years.
pizza234 5y ago
I'm in a similar situation, but I'm don't sympathize. I don't support the "doing their best" philosophy. Everybody does their best; at the very least, in the sense that actions are rationalized as the best in the moment. The website deals with this theme at least twice. One point is [here](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/dysfunctional-beliefs.html https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/dysfunction...), under "Disfunctional beliefs": - If I put up with a certain level of mistreatment from my own parents, then you should put up with the same level of mistreatment from me. The real difference between parents is those who are willing to sacrifice themselves and change, and those who don't. Theraphy can help a lot, and I bet that all the abusive parents actively refuse it precisely because they don't want that change.
- DarylZero 5y ago
  Therapy doesn't do anything for personality disorders. Therapy can't undo the childhood traumas that cause personality disorders. A personality disorder by definition is an inability to change that begins at childhood.
  - pizza234 5y ago
    Therapy is not (necessarily) a solution to the given problem; it can help handle problems. In the specific case of estranged relatives, it can establish some level of communication, which can be a very significant step.
    - DarylZero 5y ago
      A step towards what? Even in the field of psychology* it's generally accepted that personality disorders don't resolve. [*] Psychology as an analog to medical science is also a con job. Psychotherapies don't need to prove efficacy in clinical trials like drugs do. Whenever anybody does bother to do a study like that though (again -- purely voluntary) therapy never shows itself to be very effective at doing anything. But especially not for people with personality disorders.
denton-scratch 5y ago
> my parent might not have known what to do > every parent is just a human who is mostly winging it Every parent is doing it for the first time, more-or-less; we're all beginners. Kids are designed to be parented by first-time parents. Thay're amazingly resilient in the face of not-very-good parents. Of course, lots of kids have elder siblings; I don't mean literally "first-time". But few parents have more than three kids, so what I mean, I guess, is that for most parents, it's the first time they've raised one or more kids. The way you were parented affects the way you do it yourself; it's the only model you have. Sometimes you will try to do it the opposite of the way your parents did it to you, but I think that is usually rather superficial - the attitudes trickle down the generations, however hard you try to break the chain.

zuj 5y ago

> every parent is just a human who is mostly winging it trying the best they can This is an eye opening statement. Often as a kid, parents tend to look like gods and superheros because they are doing things which are impossible for us. As we age we tend to notice the shortcomings both from the current situation as they are ageing and from our child hood which we have better understanding now. Again, second order thinking helps a lot here I guess.

poulsbohemian 5y ago
Maybe it's just my outlook - I sit in meetings with adults and have to remind myself that we are all just children in overgrown bodies. Sure, some will have had experiences that have taught empathy, communication, etc, but most of us are still prone to the occasional temper tantrum or emotional outburst. And that's ok. Rather than seeing it in a derogatory way, I think it helps us all stay humble and open minded toward each other. With my kids - they are at an age where they are starting to realize that I'm human, with foibles. Better to admit that and build trust that they should heed my advice anyway, as a more experienced human, than have them distrust out of spite that I'm the parent and they are the teen.
- jiggawatts 5y ago
  "Daycare for adults" is how a coworker described a particularly dysfunctional government agency.
  - zuj 5y ago
    LOL! Isn't that every dysfunctional organisation ?

jkhdigital 5y ago

> All that said, now as a parent myself, I feel sorry for him. Slowly but surely, everything I thought I knew about my parents has changed now that I am a parent. I used to harbor bitter resentments against my mother, and wanted her to know how she failed me… now I just see an old woman who gave what she could to her five children and is just as much a “beloved child of God” as each of them. I am also acutely aware that, as long as I’m not abusive, absent or wildly inconsistent, my behavior as a parent is probably more important as my child’s future model of parent behavior when it comes time to raise the next generation. I like to joke that I insist on my son giving his grandmother a hug each time he sees her as a favor to my wife: down payment on more grandchild hugs for her in the future.

poulsbohemian 5y ago
My friend, I think you've got this humanity stuff figured out.
igetspam 5y ago
I wish I'd been so lucky. As I've grown as a parent, I've unconsciously put my mother under a microscope and keep discovering that, while she tried, she failed. We were once very close but as I've gotten older, I can compare and contrast her behavior with mine. We all suffered emotional abuses (and I've my sisters repeat the patterns, to varying degrees) but I also suffered physically, which is then took out on my younger siblings. And my mother was the good parent. My father (a term I use only to describe lineage) was mean and heavy handed. Belts were common, switches less so but not out of the realm of possibility. He was violent with my mother, his next wife's, my oldest sister and me. Probably more but those are the ones I remember. To the world outside, he was a good person but to me, he's both my demon and my motivation to be good person, a good father and a good spouse. Ask him and he'll tell you that things we witnessed never happened. The tray of brownies fell, he didn't throw it. That burn mark on the ceiling is just there; he threw the iron "in the general direction because if I'd wanted to hit her with it, I would have." We've been estranged since I was in 17. We agreed to let him back in once. Lasted six months. Never again. He doesn't know where I live and unless my kid wants to meet him some day, he'll never be given the opportunity. My mother and I finally fell out because of COVID. There were other things going on but COVID was the last one. I drew a line that said unless you get vaccinated, you can't come in my home. (She got every flu shot and vaccine, until this one.) She chose politics, I chose to protect my kid and wife. Since she won't be visiting ever again, we decided the easiest path was to just stop talking. If my kid wants to meet "mean nanna" some day, I'll arrange it but my wife and kid come first. I live my mother. It's an unfortunate outcome. My father... I couldn't care less. He's been dead to me for years.

pizza234 5y ago

I'm in a similar situation, but I'm don't sympathize. I don't support the "doing their best" philosophy. Everybody does their best; at the very least, in the sense that actions are rationalized as the best in the moment. The website deals with this theme at least twice. One point is [here](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/dysfunctional-beliefs.html https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/dysfunction...), under "Disfunctional beliefs": - If I put up with a certain level of mistreatment from my own parents, then you should put up with the same level of mistreatment from me. The real difference between parents is those who are willing to sacrifice themselves and change, and those who don't. Theraphy can help a lot, and I bet that all the abusive parents actively refuse it precisely because they don't want that change.

DarylZero 5y ago
Therapy doesn't do anything for personality disorders. Therapy can't undo the childhood traumas that cause personality disorders. A personality disorder by definition is an inability to change that begins at childhood.
- pizza234 5y ago
  Therapy is not (necessarily) a solution to the given problem; it can help handle problems. In the specific case of estranged relatives, it can establish some level of communication, which can be a very significant step.
  - DarylZero 5y ago
    A step towards what? Even in the field of psychology* it's generally accepted that personality disorders don't resolve. [*] Psychology as an analog to medical science is also a con job. Psychotherapies don't need to prove efficacy in clinical trials like drugs do. Whenever anybody does bother to do a study like that though (again -- purely voluntary) therapy never shows itself to be very effective at doing anything. But especially not for people with personality disorders.

denton-scratch 5y ago

> my parent might not have known what to do > every parent is just a human who is mostly winging it Every parent is doing it for the first time, more-or-less; we're all beginners. Kids are designed to be parented by first-time parents. Thay're amazingly resilient in the face of not-very-good parents. Of course, lots of kids have elder siblings; I don't mean literally "first-time". But few parents have more than three kids, so what I mean, I guess, is that for most parents, it's the first time they've raised one or more kids. The way you were parented affects the way you do it yourself; it's the only model you have. Sometimes you will try to do it the opposite of the way your parents did it to you, but I think that is usually rather superficial - the attitudes trickle down the generations, however hard you try to break the chain.