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> School Board: Your kids go to private school. Next. Maybe policies like these aren't really helping [0]. Who would blame the parents for that? [0] https://e

> School Board: Your kids go to private school. Next. Maybe policies like these aren't really helping [0]. Who would blame the parents for that? [0] https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11...

ClumsyPilot 5y ago
Make a list of issues affecting education: teachers can't afford to live in the city where they work, underfunding, etc. Is the issue you linked in the top 3? Top 5? I suspect top 5 or 10 issues will be about money.
- adam_arthur 5y ago
  Funding actually has very little to do with results in education. There's even a controlled experiment/case study we can reference: https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/04/25/468157856/can-more-money-fix-americas-schools https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/04/25/468157856/can-mor... Paraphrasing/shortening a bit: "Something remarkable happened in New Jersey in the late 1990s... as part of a school funding lawsuit known as Abbott v. Burke, the state increased spending in 31 of its then-poorest districts... spending in some of the districts eclipsed some of the state's wealthiest districts." "But, all these years later, many are still "spending 2.5 times the national average, and there's no real evidence that they're closing the achievement gap" It's self evident that funding doesn't matter beyond some low threshold amount where basic necessities are met. Success is about culture and especially culture of your peers. Kids are highly influenced by their parents/peers in terms of what they aspire to do and be. Kids in wealthy districts don't succeed because of educational funding; they succeed because wealthy parents are more likely to set high academics standards for their kids. And those kids become friends with other kids with high standards. And they carry that culture forward with them.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    I've been to schools in Russia, and I have never heard of some of the problems I read about in schools in US. I do not understand how you can have those issues with 10X the GDP. It sounds like a caste system, children being set up from the start of their life Culture matters, sure, but if you are freesing in class, that's definately distracting.
    - adam_arthur 5y ago
      It's the result of people choosing freely who they associate with. Wealthy people tend to flock together because they can afford areas with nice amenities and share similar culture to other, typically, white collar people. It's often touted, but Asian students (of some persuasions) tend to be high achieving (on average) regardless of economic circumstances. A lot of that is due to cultural focus on education. There are many ways the gap could be narrowed. One major one is to build mass housing, and stop encouraging housing as an investment. This would lower barrier to poorer families from living in certain areas/less "ghettoization" derived from cost disparity. Of course the nice areas will always be more expensive, but disparity doesn't have to be as wide as it is now. Anyway, many other programs that could more directly attack problem, such as social programs to support regular meals etc for poorer students. But the answer is definitely not putting more funding into education. Anyone expecting good results from that is going to be disappointed, and is ignoring the real world evidence.
foobiekr 5y ago
I thought at first this was a prank. Sadly, no.
- 29720634 5y ago
  Did you read any of the linked document or were you put off by the term "antiracist"? I have to admit I was initially put off by the entire concept but reading through what it recommends it seems pretty standard stuff, just couched in terms that are a bit... contrived for the piece. I think there's two things to understand, broadly: No one is saying that math itself is racist, nor is the teaching of math itself inherently racist. Only that the way we teach math is steeped in the dominant culture and doing some pretty simple stuff like incorporating cultural artifacts relevant to your students might help them learn better. Sadly, as many other commenters have pointed out, besides the rare private school where the teachers have adequate pay and a decent teacher to student ratio, full implementation of any of it is kind of a stretch.
  - foobiekr 5y ago
    I did read it. Did you? It's full of silly propaganda draped around bits of well-known issues (such as language fluency). 2/3rds of the actual text is weird anti-racist propaganda about white supremacy. Your point is analogous to telling someone looking at a Christian school guidebook full of Jesus/etc. and then saying "yeah, but what about the non-Christian parts that are completely well understood and normal? Were you just put off by the religious aspects?" Yes. And that is a legitimate take on the issue.
    - 29720634 5y ago
      What specifically about the antiracist message do you take issue with? Seems innoucous enough to me. To your point about religious texts -- good analogy. I'm able to read those texts and find things I agree with, and things I don't, but I'm not put off by it being a religious text.
      - foobiekr 5y ago

ClumsyPilot 5y ago

Make a list of issues affecting education: teachers can't afford to live in the city where they work, underfunding, etc. Is the issue you linked in the top 3? Top 5? I suspect top 5 or 10 issues will be about money.

adam_arthur 5y ago
Funding actually has very little to do with results in education. There's even a controlled experiment/case study we can reference: https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/04/25/468157856/can-more-money-fix-americas-schools https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/04/25/468157856/can-mor... Paraphrasing/shortening a bit: "Something remarkable happened in New Jersey in the late 1990s... as part of a school funding lawsuit known as Abbott v. Burke, the state increased spending in 31 of its then-poorest districts... spending in some of the districts eclipsed some of the state's wealthiest districts." "But, all these years later, many are still "spending 2.5 times the national average, and there's no real evidence that they're closing the achievement gap" It's self evident that funding doesn't matter beyond some low threshold amount where basic necessities are met. Success is about culture and especially culture of your peers. Kids are highly influenced by their parents/peers in terms of what they aspire to do and be. Kids in wealthy districts don't succeed because of educational funding; they succeed because wealthy parents are more likely to set high academics standards for their kids. And those kids become friends with other kids with high standards. And they carry that culture forward with them.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  I've been to schools in Russia, and I have never heard of some of the problems I read about in schools in US. I do not understand how you can have those issues with 10X the GDP. It sounds like a caste system, children being set up from the start of their life Culture matters, sure, but if you are freesing in class, that's definately distracting.
  - adam_arthur 5y ago
    It's the result of people choosing freely who they associate with. Wealthy people tend to flock together because they can afford areas with nice amenities and share similar culture to other, typically, white collar people. It's often touted, but Asian students (of some persuasions) tend to be high achieving (on average) regardless of economic circumstances. A lot of that is due to cultural focus on education. There are many ways the gap could be narrowed. One major one is to build mass housing, and stop encouraging housing as an investment. This would lower barrier to poorer families from living in certain areas/less "ghettoization" derived from cost disparity. Of course the nice areas will always be more expensive, but disparity doesn't have to be as wide as it is now. Anyway, many other programs that could more directly attack problem, such as social programs to support regular meals etc for poorer students. But the answer is definitely not putting more funding into education. Anyone expecting good results from that is going to be disappointed, and is ignoring the real world evidence.

foobiekr 5y ago

I thought at first this was a prank. Sadly, no.

29720634 5y ago
Did you read any of the linked document or were you put off by the term "antiracist"? I have to admit I was initially put off by the entire concept but reading through what it recommends it seems pretty standard stuff, just couched in terms that are a bit... contrived for the piece. I think there's two things to understand, broadly: No one is saying that math itself is racist, nor is the teaching of math itself inherently racist. Only that the way we teach math is steeped in the dominant culture and doing some pretty simple stuff like incorporating cultural artifacts relevant to your students might help them learn better. Sadly, as many other commenters have pointed out, besides the rare private school where the teachers have adequate pay and a decent teacher to student ratio, full implementation of any of it is kind of a stretch.
- foobiekr 5y ago
  I did read it. Did you? It's full of silly propaganda draped around bits of well-known issues (such as language fluency). 2/3rds of the actual text is weird anti-racist propaganda about white supremacy. Your point is analogous to telling someone looking at a Christian school guidebook full of Jesus/etc. and then saying "yeah, but what about the non-Christian parts that are completely well understood and normal? Were you just put off by the religious aspects?" Yes. And that is a legitimate take on the issue.
  - 29720634 5y ago
    What specifically about the antiracist message do you take issue with? Seems innoucous enough to me. To your point about religious texts -- good analogy. I'm able to read those texts and find things I agree with, and things I don't, but I'm not put off by it being a religious text.
    - foobiekr 5y ago