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> The Californian experiment was audacious and brave Yet you can’t be brave enough to give any kudos to Florida’s red politics, and instead call it a “politica

> The Californian experiment was audacious and brave Yet you can’t be brave enough to give any kudos to Florida’s red politics, and instead call it a “political train wreck”. This kind of social fear is the other half of the bay areas failure. It’s not just the politicians, it’s the people. You’ll need to get over your holier-than-thou political perception to enjoy Miami (and life). Texas and Florida are having a huge upswell because they are basically making an anti-political stand to go “back to normal”. It’s attractive to people who don’t want politics.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
somewhereoutth 5y ago
"back to normal" is not an anti-political stand - no politics wants to keep us from normal. However rather a lot of politics wants to pretend that Covid isn't happening, both for financial and ideological reasons.
- kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
  Are you sure that there aren't some (many) politicians who enjoy the feeling of importance they get from decreeing emergency laws because of Covid? I think for many citizens it is the same, they finally have their "moments" of importance, just as previous generations had their wars.
- devmunchies 5y ago
  > politics wants to pretend that Covid isn't happening, both for financial and ideological or their constituents don't care about covid, in that case the govt is getting out of the way. which seems more correct, and why Miami is attracting so many. the people want it.
  - somewhereoutth 5y ago
    Ah 'the people' (or at least a large chunk of them) are easily told what they want - by those financially and ideologically motivated politicians. The idea of government 'getting out the way' is itself a political/propaganda construct, if people actually sat down and thought about it they'd realise that in fact they actually quite like the government getting in the way.
- adam_arthur 5y ago
  Well, if you look at the data, covid outcomes in TX/FL aren't much different than CA/NY despite completely different policy routes. People in the south have been able to live without restriction, as if covid doesn't exist, and the result is pretty much the same. So are the authoritarian/mandate style policies doing anything meaningful to help? Obviously there are many variables to consider such as age, prevalence of obesity, density etc, but you would expect to see stark differences in outcomes if mandate/lockdown policies had a substantial impact. Somewhere along the way the covid hardliners lost the plot and continue to focus on the case counts rather than consider the holistic/multivariate model of second order effects of policy. Seems pretty unscientific to me to have a policy function with a single variable input.
  - tzs 5y ago
    > People in the south have been able to live without restriction, as if covid doesn't exist, and the result is pretty much the same. That might have been true pre-Delta. The delta wave was about 4x worse in deaths per capita in Texas and about 7 x worse in Florida than in California or New York [1]. Overall, New York has 2 bad months at the start of the pandemic, and then has done pretty well in the subsequent months. Florida, Texas, and California have been doing worse than New York for most of the time after those first couple of months. Florida and Texas were substantially worse that California for about 2 months of the late summer 2020 wave. California was slightly worse than Texas, and Florida was the best of the 4, for a month during the early 2021 wave. This was enough to put Texas above Florida on deaths per capita, but not enough to unset California at the lowest deaths per capita of the 4. Then delta moved Florida to near New York totals and moved Texas to about 60% of the way between California and New York [2]. On other words, statistically if you survived the first two months of the pandemic and then had a choice between New York, California, Texas, and Florida until the present the chances of dying from COVID were lowest in New York. In California they were about 28% higher than New York. In Texas they were about 35% higher than in California and about 73% higher than in New York. In Florida they were about 12% higher than in Texas, 52% higher than in California, and 93% higher than New York. [1] http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?chart=states-normalized&highlight=California&show=highlight-only&y=both&scale=linear&data=deaths-daily-7&data-source=jhu&xaxis=right&extra=New%20York%2CFlorida%2CTexas#states-normalized http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?chart=states-... [2] http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?chart=states-normalized&highlight=California&show=highlight-only&y=both&scale=linear&data=deaths&data-source=jhu&xaxis=right&extra=New%20York%2CFlorida%2CTexas#states-normalized http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?chart=states-...

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

somewhereoutth 5y ago

"back to normal" is not an anti-political stand - no politics wants to keep us from normal. However rather a lot of politics wants to pretend that Covid isn't happening, both for financial and ideological reasons.

kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
Are you sure that there aren't some (many) politicians who enjoy the feeling of importance they get from decreeing emergency laws because of Covid? I think for many citizens it is the same, they finally have their "moments" of importance, just as previous generations had their wars.
devmunchies 5y ago
> politics wants to pretend that Covid isn't happening, both for financial and ideological or their constituents don't care about covid, in that case the govt is getting out of the way. which seems more correct, and why Miami is attracting so many. the people want it.
- somewhereoutth 5y ago
  Ah 'the people' (or at least a large chunk of them) are easily told what they want - by those financially and ideologically motivated politicians. The idea of government 'getting out the way' is itself a political/propaganda construct, if people actually sat down and thought about it they'd realise that in fact they actually quite like the government getting in the way.
adam_arthur 5y ago
Well, if you look at the data, covid outcomes in TX/FL aren't much different than CA/NY despite completely different policy routes. People in the south have been able to live without restriction, as if covid doesn't exist, and the result is pretty much the same. So are the authoritarian/mandate style policies doing anything meaningful to help? Obviously there are many variables to consider such as age, prevalence of obesity, density etc, but you would expect to see stark differences in outcomes if mandate/lockdown policies had a substantial impact. Somewhere along the way the covid hardliners lost the plot and continue to focus on the case counts rather than consider the holistic/multivariate model of second order effects of policy. Seems pretty unscientific to me to have a policy function with a single variable input.
- tzs 5y ago
  > People in the south have been able to live without restriction, as if covid doesn't exist, and the result is pretty much the same. That might have been true pre-Delta. The delta wave was about 4x worse in deaths per capita in Texas and about 7 x worse in Florida than in California or New York [1]. Overall, New York has 2 bad months at the start of the pandemic, and then has done pretty well in the subsequent months. Florida, Texas, and California have been doing worse than New York for most of the time after those first couple of months. Florida and Texas were substantially worse that California for about 2 months of the late summer 2020 wave. California was slightly worse than Texas, and Florida was the best of the 4, for a month during the early 2021 wave. This was enough to put Texas above Florida on deaths per capita, but not enough to unset California at the lowest deaths per capita of the 4. Then delta moved Florida to near New York totals and moved Texas to about 60% of the way between California and New York [2]. On other words, statistically if you survived the first two months of the pandemic and then had a choice between New York, California, Texas, and Florida until the present the chances of dying from COVID were lowest in New York. In California they were about 28% higher than New York. In Texas they were about 35% higher than in California and about 73% higher than in New York. In Florida they were about 12% higher than in Texas, 52% higher than in California, and 93% higher than New York. [1] http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?chart=states-normalized&highlight=California&show=highlight-only&y=both&scale=linear&data=deaths-daily-7&data-source=jhu&xaxis=right&extra=New%20York%2CFlorida%2CTexas#states-normalized http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?chart=states-... [2] http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?chart=states-normalized&highlight=California&show=highlight-only&y=both&scale=linear&data=deaths&data-source=jhu&xaxis=right&extra=New%20York%2CFlorida%2CTexas#states-normalized http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?chart=states-...