6 ms·

Wasn't going to respond, but just feel compelled to... I have lived in the Bay Area for over 20 years, 12 years in SF, and now in the East Bay. I'm in SF, Berk

Wasn't going to respond, but just feel compelled to... I have lived in the Bay Area for over 20 years, 12 years in SF, and now in the East Bay. I'm in SF, Berkeley, Oakland, Emeryville, and Contra Costa at least once a week. Personally I do not know anybody who has been assaulted or robbed and I have never been assaulted or robbed. I frequently am in SF downtown, and in Oakland/Emeryville. Both considered "hotspots"; nothing ever happened to me and never felt unsafe. I do not feel exhausted. I never did anything more than my job (and, yes, I'm in "tech". And nobody ever yelled at me for it.) The nature, landscape, the parks, hikes, culture, weather are pretty awesome and I'll likely never move away. Is everything perfect? Of course not! Is there a problem with homelessness? Yes there is! Maybe we should do what other cities and counties have done and just chase the homeless out to somewhere else, kick the can down the road? HELL NO! I happen to work at a company that actually does something about that. My sampling set is obviously small (my friends, colleagues, and acquaintances), and so seems the author's sampling set. The author undoubtedly had his experiences and that's a shame. I'm just here to convey a different view on things and not all of us feel that way.

Flankk 5y ago
Appreciate your perspective. It was in the news that people are leaving their car windows and trunk open to prevent theft. Smash and grabs are rampant throughout the city. Is this not your experience or has someone already stolen your car so it's not an issue anymore?
- linuxhansl 5y ago
  Heh. We all know that news are sensational by their very nature. Nobody reports all the good things that happen, or on the bad stuff that did not happen. No, my car was not stolen and no it hasn't been broken into, yet. (knock knock knock) Don't doubt it's happening, I have never seen a car with the window or trunk open.
chrischen 5y ago
I lived in SF 10 years and early on I was robbed at knife point just walking around The Mission district at around 7 PM (though it was dark because it was winter time). I wasn't robbed but there was a person that burst out of the Victoria's secret downtown right in front of me. My friend had her laptop stolen in the coffee shop I used to frequent, and while the thief was caught they could not recover any of the stolen stuff and she was eventually released. Someone grabbed my iPhone out of my pocket (though I chased him down and forced him to return it). Friend had parked a car in The Mission for their wedding held there. It was broken into and some wedding gifts including cash were stolen. Friend had a guy "accidentally" open his back balcony door. While working out of a pretty crowded Starbucks in the financial district some thugs came in and attempted a snatch and grab. He basically leaned in really quickly towards me but then apparently aborted when I braced and held the laptop. I wasn't even sure until the guy next to me told me after they left that they were planning to snatch it, and that one time he saw them do this and while trying to leave run full speed into a door that opened in-ward only. I also for several years took the BART around midnight daily (after working out of a coffee shop downtown) so there's a long list of stuff I'm not even mentioning. I think if you do short restricted trips to SF to nice areas, go with groups, take Ubers or your own car, etc, you can be pretty insulated. It wouldn't be hard to be sensible and take obvious precautions to greatly limit your exposure to crime. In fact, almost all of my friends who are there find it a great place to live because they basically do not have to interact with any of the undesirable parts or peoples of SF. I personally tried to take as much public transit (bus, walking, and BART) as much as I could, ate in The Tenderloin almost daily (and walked through it), and worked from public places frequently, so maybe I was asking for it but also I didn't want to give up the freedom to be able to do those things and not live some "alternate" city insulated life. It's no wonder there's an anti-techie sentiment because the techies live on a complete different plane of existence here, never having to interact with the lower classes except when giving a tip, accepting a delivery, or writing a roommate rejection letter, and never having to interact with the public infrastructure that a whole class of people depend on and have no choice but to use. Some of my friends never had to leave the house except to go to work (delivery for food and groceries, Uber if they had to go somewhere specific). Yea if you can keep yourself in this bubble life is great; the city is great; the pay is great. Of course, I did feel exhausted and left last year. If I wanted an insulated city life I'd have moved to the suburbs or LA. Planning to move to Tokyo as soon as they open up, where I can hopefully at least live in the city amongst the people, rather than above them.
- 0x0nyandesu 5y ago
  This reliance on delivery is baffling to me. I've tried and had them half the time give me incorrect replacements and as a foodie I just can't abide it. Quality of the produce is also hit or miss. I also just stare at the screen and waste time not able to decide but in person I can be in and out fairly quickly. I guess I'm not affluent enough (I just bought a house for 935k). BTW how are you planning to live in Tokyo? Also my dream.
  - chrischen 5y ago
    As an employee, you'd have to find a job or go as a "language student." As a founder, you can either incorporate over there (expensive but not prohibitively so) or set up a representative office and move yourself as the employee over there (actually cheaper than going as a language student).
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  > I think if you do short restricted trips to SF to nice areas, go with groups, take Ubers or your own car, etc, you can be pretty insulated. It wouldn't be hard to be sensible and take obvious precautions to greatly limit your exposure to crime. In fact, almost all of my friends who are there find it a great place to live because they basically do not have to interact with any of the undesirable parts or peoples of SF. I personally tried to take as much public transit (bus, walking, and BART) as much as I could Other people have noted that San Francisco residents will fight like hell against the idea of opening a BART station, whereas anywhere else in the world a subway station is a very valuable amenity that dramatically increases the value of nearby apartments.
  - chrischen 5y ago
    If you take BART and Muni trains regularly you'll notice the crowd is very very different, with BART probably mostly being used by out-of-city commuters working in the service industry and the occasional Berkley students, and MUNI servicing more SF residents. Most of the wealthy tech class avoid the BART like the plague, and it's easy to see why because a good 10-20% of the BART passengers are just homeless people roaming around the trains. So seeing as how rich people never use BART, it's easy to understand why they associate it with just undesirable people and a vessel for transporting them into the city.
stickfigure 5y ago
I guess if we're offering data points - I lived in SF for 17 years. My car (during the years I had a car) was broken into multiple times to steal completely worthless crap. A couple friends got mugged on the street. One person I know had to have her jaw wired back together when some random homeless guy ran up to her (unprovoked, completely by surprise) and shattered a glass bottle on her face. I personally don't feel at all unsafe in SF, but I do feel pretty icky there these days. Expensive and dirty and not really any fun. I moved to the country and don't regret it in the slightest. That said, I think the east bay is still pretty fun. Much of the life that used to be in SF seems to still exist in Oakland.
- ng12 5y ago
  > but I do feel pretty icky there these days. This is what really blows my mind. SF is the only city I know of where you can walk out the doors of a multi-billion dollar company to be greeted by absolute filth. I'm sure there are parts of NY/DC/Boston that are comparable but I don't understand why they're so central in SF. Even in DTLA most of the economic activity is reasonably separated from skid row.
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    I would call it a consequence of the two-party system. San Francisco's commitment to subsidizing their own criminal underclass can only really exist in the context of the dispute between the Democratic Party and the Republican Party over how an underclass should be dealt with. The Democrats control California for other reasons, and their control is so solid that they're free to implement their worst ideas.
    - kcplate 5y ago
      Unfortunately the Democratic Party of the last 20+ years has come to measure their policy successes by their intentions rather than their effects.
    - thephyber 5y ago
      This ignores some upstream decisions that were done by powers other than Democrats. Governor Reagan closed most mental institutions in the state. Lots of them were terrible places because we humans (even doctors) are not kind to others with mental illness, especially the ones that dislike being held against their will. Also, asylum inmates are kind of hidden and politically “voiceless”. The jail/prison system was the de facto replacement, but US incarceration largely increases mental illness and our corrections system isn’t great at helping people avoid being put away again. Then the SCOCA ruled that the prisons and jails in California were so overcrowded that it violated the rights of inmates, so the state had to quickly work to whittle down incarcerated populations while prosecutors were trying to pretend like they had any chance at a defendant would do long time for a light crime. Then the voters passed a state prop to reduce some classes of crimes from felonies to misdemeanors. There are 2 silver linings as I see them: (1) some jurisdictions in CA are experimenting with voting other than First Past the Post and (2) voters in SF and other cities see some of these issues as political and policy losers and are eager to reject them (if given a reasonable alternative).
the_decider 5y ago
This Fall I moved to NYC after 16 years residing in San Francisco. I’ve been amazed how clean and safe the Manhattan streets seem relative to SF. Over the course of my life in San Francisco I’ve: 1) Had a crazy homeless person try to push me under a moving Bart. 2) Was assulted by two thugs outside of City Lights Books 3) Seen multiple laptop snatches at various coffee shops 4) Had a good friend who twice got punched in the face out on the streets. I loved SF back in the day, but that city feels gone. Buried under a pile of dangerous filth. Now that I’m in New York, I couldn’t be happier!
findjashua 5y ago
while we’re sharing personal experiences: 1. have seen people get their laptops snatched in coffee shops, right in front of them 2. friend mugged at gunpoint at emeryville bart station, and pistol whipped on the head even after giving up his belongings 3. had someone break into an apartment in our apartment complex 4. had a drunk guy follow me & my wife, while waving a bottle in his hand. I honestly thought a confrontation was going to be unavoidable, but luckily we got home before he caught up with us 5. a friend had her old, beat-up car broken into so often, she stopped getting the window replaced San Francisco loves to impose regulations and collect taxes. Meanwhile tax payers and lawful citizens have to not only deal with filthy streets and mentally unstable individuals, but are also shamed for pointing out the existence of any of these problems. the only thing keeping me sane is that I’m moving out of this shithole of a city in a month.
hellisothers 5y ago
Agreed, this seems like another article complaining about SF but saying “Bay Area” instead. Most of the complaints here are very specific to SF, especially the usual tropes of violence and poop. Not sure why articles dunking on SF have yo drag the whole bay into it.
- actually_a_dog 5y ago
  +1. As I mentioned in another comment, I've lived in the East Bay for longer than the author has lived in SF, and I've experienced precisely none of what he's talking about.
redis_mlc 5y ago
actually_a_dog 5y ago
Hear, hear! I have lived in the Bay Area for a couple years longer than the author of the article, and I haven't experienced any of what they say they have. Specifically, I've experienced 0 home break-ins, 0 car break-in, 0 other thefts, and never been accosted or chased by anyone, much less someone who seemed homeless or mentally ill. I've always lived in the East Bay and commuted into SF for work, except for the past couple of years, due to COVID, of course. My typical commute has been to either walk or drive to the nearest BART station, ride the train to my stop in SF, then walk the remaining distance. I've never felt truly unsafe in all the hundreds of times I've made that trip. Other than the fact that I may never be able to afford to buy a home here, I love it in the Bay Area. The only thing that will ever force me out is money, and I'm doing my damndest to make sure that doesn't happen. > Is there a problem with homelessness? Yes there is! Maybe we should do what other cities and counties have done and just chase the homeless out to somewhere else, kick the can down the road? HELL NO! I happen to work at a company that actually does something about that. We totally agree here. BTW, I'm looking for a job. I have an email in my profile (not my "main" email, but it will reach me), and I'd be interested to know more about your company. I'm very interested in doing something that does some good, if your company is hiring a software engineer.

Flankk 5y ago

Appreciate your perspective. It was in the news that people are leaving their car windows and trunk open to prevent theft. Smash and grabs are rampant throughout the city. Is this not your experience or has someone already stolen your car so it's not an issue anymore?

linuxhansl 5y ago
Heh. We all know that news are sensational by their very nature. Nobody reports all the good things that happen, or on the bad stuff that did not happen. No, my car was not stolen and no it hasn't been broken into, yet. (knock knock knock) Don't doubt it's happening, I have never seen a car with the window or trunk open.

chrischen 5y ago

I lived in SF 10 years and early on I was robbed at knife point just walking around The Mission district at around 7 PM (though it was dark because it was winter time). I wasn't robbed but there was a person that burst out of the Victoria's secret downtown right in front of me. My friend had her laptop stolen in the coffee shop I used to frequent, and while the thief was caught they could not recover any of the stolen stuff and she was eventually released. Someone grabbed my iPhone out of my pocket (though I chased him down and forced him to return it). Friend had parked a car in The Mission for their wedding held there. It was broken into and some wedding gifts including cash were stolen. Friend had a guy "accidentally" open his back balcony door. While working out of a pretty crowded Starbucks in the financial district some thugs came in and attempted a snatch and grab. He basically leaned in really quickly towards me but then apparently aborted when I braced and held the laptop. I wasn't even sure until the guy next to me told me after they left that they were planning to snatch it, and that one time he saw them do this and while trying to leave run full speed into a door that opened in-ward only. I also for several years took the BART around midnight daily (after working out of a coffee shop downtown) so there's a long list of stuff I'm not even mentioning. I think if you do short restricted trips to SF to nice areas, go with groups, take Ubers or your own car, etc, you can be pretty insulated. It wouldn't be hard to be sensible and take obvious precautions to greatly limit your exposure to crime. In fact, almost all of my friends who are there find it a great place to live because they basically do not have to interact with any of the undesirable parts or peoples of SF. I personally tried to take as much public transit (bus, walking, and BART) as much as I could, ate in The Tenderloin almost daily (and walked through it), and worked from public places frequently, so maybe I was asking for it but also I didn't want to give up the freedom to be able to do those things and not live some "alternate" city insulated life. It's no wonder there's an anti-techie sentiment because the techies live on a complete different plane of existence here, never having to interact with the lower classes except when giving a tip, accepting a delivery, or writing a roommate rejection letter, and never having to interact with the public infrastructure that a whole class of people depend on and have no choice but to use. Some of my friends never had to leave the house except to go to work (delivery for food and groceries, Uber if they had to go somewhere specific). Yea if you can keep yourself in this bubble life is great; the city is great; the pay is great. Of course, I did feel exhausted and left last year. If I wanted an insulated city life I'd have moved to the suburbs or LA. Planning to move to Tokyo as soon as they open up, where I can hopefully at least live in the city amongst the people, rather than above them.

0x0nyandesu 5y ago
This reliance on delivery is baffling to me. I've tried and had them half the time give me incorrect replacements and as a foodie I just can't abide it. Quality of the produce is also hit or miss. I also just stare at the screen and waste time not able to decide but in person I can be in and out fairly quickly. I guess I'm not affluent enough (I just bought a house for 935k). BTW how are you planning to live in Tokyo? Also my dream.
- chrischen 5y ago
  As an employee, you'd have to find a job or go as a "language student." As a founder, you can either incorporate over there (expensive but not prohibitively so) or set up a representative office and move yourself as the employee over there (actually cheaper than going as a language student).
thaumasiotes 5y ago
> I think if you do short restricted trips to SF to nice areas, go with groups, take Ubers or your own car, etc, you can be pretty insulated. It wouldn't be hard to be sensible and take obvious precautions to greatly limit your exposure to crime. In fact, almost all of my friends who are there find it a great place to live because they basically do not have to interact with any of the undesirable parts or peoples of SF. I personally tried to take as much public transit (bus, walking, and BART) as much as I could Other people have noted that San Francisco residents will fight like hell against the idea of opening a BART station, whereas anywhere else in the world a subway station is a very valuable amenity that dramatically increases the value of nearby apartments.
- chrischen 5y ago
  If you take BART and Muni trains regularly you'll notice the crowd is very very different, with BART probably mostly being used by out-of-city commuters working in the service industry and the occasional Berkley students, and MUNI servicing more SF residents. Most of the wealthy tech class avoid the BART like the plague, and it's easy to see why because a good 10-20% of the BART passengers are just homeless people roaming around the trains. So seeing as how rich people never use BART, it's easy to understand why they associate it with just undesirable people and a vessel for transporting them into the city.

stickfigure 5y ago

I guess if we're offering data points - I lived in SF for 17 years. My car (during the years I had a car) was broken into multiple times to steal completely worthless crap. A couple friends got mugged on the street. One person I know had to have her jaw wired back together when some random homeless guy ran up to her (unprovoked, completely by surprise) and shattered a glass bottle on her face. I personally don't feel at all unsafe in SF, but I do feel pretty icky there these days. Expensive and dirty and not really any fun. I moved to the country and don't regret it in the slightest. That said, I think the east bay is still pretty fun. Much of the life that used to be in SF seems to still exist in Oakland.

ng12 5y ago
> but I do feel pretty icky there these days. This is what really blows my mind. SF is the only city I know of where you can walk out the doors of a multi-billion dollar company to be greeted by absolute filth. I'm sure there are parts of NY/DC/Boston that are comparable but I don't understand why they're so central in SF. Even in DTLA most of the economic activity is reasonably separated from skid row.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  I would call it a consequence of the two-party system. San Francisco's commitment to subsidizing their own criminal underclass can only really exist in the context of the dispute between the Democratic Party and the Republican Party over how an underclass should be dealt with. The Democrats control California for other reasons, and their control is so solid that they're free to implement their worst ideas.
  - kcplate 5y ago
    Unfortunately the Democratic Party of the last 20+ years has come to measure their policy successes by their intentions rather than their effects.
  - thephyber 5y ago
    This ignores some upstream decisions that were done by powers other than Democrats. Governor Reagan closed most mental institutions in the state. Lots of them were terrible places because we humans (even doctors) are not kind to others with mental illness, especially the ones that dislike being held against their will. Also, asylum inmates are kind of hidden and politically “voiceless”. The jail/prison system was the de facto replacement, but US incarceration largely increases mental illness and our corrections system isn’t great at helping people avoid being put away again. Then the SCOCA ruled that the prisons and jails in California were so overcrowded that it violated the rights of inmates, so the state had to quickly work to whittle down incarcerated populations while prosecutors were trying to pretend like they had any chance at a defendant would do long time for a light crime. Then the voters passed a state prop to reduce some classes of crimes from felonies to misdemeanors. There are 2 silver linings as I see them: (1) some jurisdictions in CA are experimenting with voting other than First Past the Post and (2) voters in SF and other cities see some of these issues as political and policy losers and are eager to reject them (if given a reasonable alternative).

the_decider 5y ago

This Fall I moved to NYC after 16 years residing in San Francisco. I’ve been amazed how clean and safe the Manhattan streets seem relative to SF. Over the course of my life in San Francisco I’ve: 1) Had a crazy homeless person try to push me under a moving Bart. 2) Was assulted by two thugs outside of City Lights Books 3) Seen multiple laptop snatches at various coffee shops 4) Had a good friend who twice got punched in the face out on the streets. I loved SF back in the day, but that city feels gone. Buried under a pile of dangerous filth. Now that I’m in New York, I couldn’t be happier!

findjashua 5y ago

while we’re sharing personal experiences: 1. have seen people get their laptops snatched in coffee shops, right in front of them 2. friend mugged at gunpoint at emeryville bart station, and pistol whipped on the head even after giving up his belongings 3. had someone break into an apartment in our apartment complex 4. had a drunk guy follow me & my wife, while waving a bottle in his hand. I honestly thought a confrontation was going to be unavoidable, but luckily we got home before he caught up with us 5. a friend had her old, beat-up car broken into so often, she stopped getting the window replaced San Francisco loves to impose regulations and collect taxes. Meanwhile tax payers and lawful citizens have to not only deal with filthy streets and mentally unstable individuals, but are also shamed for pointing out the existence of any of these problems. the only thing keeping me sane is that I’m moving out of this shithole of a city in a month.

hellisothers 5y ago

Agreed, this seems like another article complaining about SF but saying “Bay Area” instead. Most of the complaints here are very specific to SF, especially the usual tropes of violence and poop. Not sure why articles dunking on SF have yo drag the whole bay into it.

actually_a_dog 5y ago
+1. As I mentioned in another comment, I've lived in the East Bay for longer than the author has lived in SF, and I've experienced precisely none of what he's talking about.

redis_mlc 5y ago

actually_a_dog 5y ago

Hear, hear! I have lived in the Bay Area for a couple years longer than the author of the article, and I haven't experienced any of what they say they have. Specifically, I've experienced 0 home break-ins, 0 car break-in, 0 other thefts, and never been accosted or chased by anyone, much less someone who seemed homeless or mentally ill. I've always lived in the East Bay and commuted into SF for work, except for the past couple of years, due to COVID, of course. My typical commute has been to either walk or drive to the nearest BART station, ride the train to my stop in SF, then walk the remaining distance. I've never felt truly unsafe in all the hundreds of times I've made that trip. Other than the fact that I may never be able to afford to buy a home here, I love it in the Bay Area. The only thing that will ever force me out is money, and I'm doing my damndest to make sure that doesn't happen. > Is there a problem with homelessness? Yes there is! Maybe we should do what other cities and counties have done and just chase the homeless out to somewhere else, kick the can down the road? HELL NO! I happen to work at a company that actually does something about that. We totally agree here. BTW, I'm looking for a job. I have an email in my profile (not my "main" email, but it will reach me), and I'd be interested to know more about your company. I'm very interested in doing something that does some good, if your company is hiring a software engineer.