3 ms·

> LACs pay junior faculty $65K and those faculty routinely place students in positions with >$150K total comp. These are facts, even at low tier colleges. You'

> LACs pay junior faculty $65K and those faculty routinely place students in positions with >$150K total comp. These are facts, even at low tier colleges. You're leaving out a key fact, which is salary for academics is reported for 9-months, not 12. Anyway, these stats are tracked for CS. We don't have to speculate or pull numbers out of the air. Here's the latest survey: https://cra.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/2020-CRA-Taulbee-Survey.pdf https://cra.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/2020-CRA-Taulbee-... A 9 month salary of $65k would put you at the bottom 10% of teaching faculty in the nation. The 50th percentile is more like $82k, which is $109k annualized. If you start at $65k, I think by the time you actually graduate any students you should be making a lot more than that. And if you're not, there's got to be some other reason why you're not making a more representative salary. But yes, in general academics can make less than the students they graduate. Many academics are okay with that because: 1. It's really hard to put a value on not having a boss in the traditional sense. 2. It's also hard to put a value on getting 3 months off in the summer and 1 month off in the winter every year. Then again, I guess it's not hard to put a value on that: it's whatever they forego in extra salary working in industry. In that sense while the students earn more, they don't 10 paid weeks off + 11 weeks unpaid vacation in the summer.

throwawaygh 5y ago
Well, yeah, my entire point is that those $65K places fail to hire/retain, precisely because they can't/won't pay and consider the bottom of the CRA range insanely generous/competitive. Maybe I wasn't clear enough about that point. The whole thread descended into pedantry about a multiple when everyone concedes the basic point. What the CRA survey doesn't tell you is that a huge percentage of CS departments just have failed searches year after year. (And, actually, there is some CRA-E report somewhere that laments the incredible difficulty of hiring in CS.)
- ModernMech 5y ago
  I can see a scenario where $65k would be attractive. If it were some small college in the middle of nowhere with a 3/3 course load, that would be a very attractive position for some people. I bet when you look into it though, those schools want something like a 5/5 load with min 3 preps. No thank you. > The whole thread descended into pedantry about a multiple when everyone concedes the basic point. What else would you expect from a thread that has attracted a bunch of academics? :P
  - throwawaygh 5y ago
    > If it were some small college in the middle of nowhere with a 3/3 course load, that would be a very attractive position for some people. Can't imagine who. Maybe the childless? Or perhaps folks with trust funds. > I bet when you look into it though, those schools want something like a 5/5 load with min 3 preps. No thank you. 3/3 was available pre-COVID. But the pandemic turbo-charged the MBAification of higher ed. Today? Maybe you can find 4/4, but the high prep count is real. Oh, and you're definitely the chair at some point before tenure. These are like 50-60 hour weeks if you're doing the job well. Not worth the short summer off (during which you will... sit around in the middle of nowhere and pinch pennies if you happen to have a family) >> The whole thread descended into pedantry about a multiple when everyone concedes the basic point. > What else would you expect from a thread that has attracted a bunch of academics? :P I visibly winced when a dean told me about the unique allure of life immersed in academia ;-D

throwawaygh 5y ago

Well, yeah, my entire point is that those $65K places fail to hire/retain, precisely because they can't/won't pay and consider the bottom of the CRA range insanely generous/competitive. Maybe I wasn't clear enough about that point. The whole thread descended into pedantry about a multiple when everyone concedes the basic point. What the CRA survey doesn't tell you is that a huge percentage of CS departments just have failed searches year after year. (And, actually, there is some CRA-E report somewhere that laments the incredible difficulty of hiring in CS.)

ModernMech 5y ago
I can see a scenario where $65k would be attractive. If it were some small college in the middle of nowhere with a 3/3 course load, that would be a very attractive position for some people. I bet when you look into it though, those schools want something like a 5/5 load with min 3 preps. No thank you. > The whole thread descended into pedantry about a multiple when everyone concedes the basic point. What else would you expect from a thread that has attracted a bunch of academics? :P
- throwawaygh 5y ago
  > If it were some small college in the middle of nowhere with a 3/3 course load, that would be a very attractive position for some people. Can't imagine who. Maybe the childless? Or perhaps folks with trust funds. > I bet when you look into it though, those schools want something like a 5/5 load with min 3 preps. No thank you. 3/3 was available pre-COVID. But the pandemic turbo-charged the MBAification of higher ed. Today? Maybe you can find 4/4, but the high prep count is real. Oh, and you're definitely the chair at some point before tenure. These are like 50-60 hour weeks if you're doing the job well. Not worth the short summer off (during which you will... sit around in the middle of nowhere and pinch pennies if you happen to have a family) >> The whole thread descended into pedantry about a multiple when everyone concedes the basic point. > What else would you expect from a thread that has attracted a bunch of academics? :P I visibly winced when a dean told me about the unique allure of life immersed in academia ;-D