4 ms·

The worst part of being a developer in the midwest is the companies; banks, financial services, insurance, telecoms, insurance, banks. Did I mention insurance a

The worst part of being a developer in the midwest is the companies; banks, financial services, insurance, telecoms, insurance, banks. Did I mention insurance and banks? Of course there is more variety, but I think most would agree there's not a lot of cutting edge stuff going on "here" generally. Growing remote oppurtunities do mitigate that, but the number of companies trying to "modernize" their infrastructure is... depressing.

yesimahuman 5y ago
There are legacy companies everywhere. There are more than enough interesting startups or remote opportunities in the Midwest (city depending) that this isn’t really true any more
- PascLeRasc 5y ago
  The interesting companies (Duolingo, Argo, Root, maybe Capital One, etc) in the Midwest won't hire anyone from regular local universities. They get all their people from CMU/Stanford/UCs. If you went to a place like Ohio State the best you can hope for locally is DBA at an insurance company. A lot of the engineers I graduated with have given up on this and are doing real estate or retraining to become a teacher. You can work for SpaceX, Google, Amazon, but you need to move out of the Midwest first. So out of college you need to ask yourself if giving up all your local friends and family is worth having a fulfilling career. It's hard. The workplace culture is different too. If you're in the rust belt, your managers over age 50 came from manufacturing lines and were taught that they need to literally see you looking like you're working all the time and they'll use phrases like "extract value from human capital". They'll want you to beg and plead for permission to use your PTO, but then put in your performance review that you're getting a 1% instead of a 2% raise for excessive time off utilization. My friend's telecom workplace just announced that their holiday bonus is that they may wear jeans on Fridays all 2022.
  - yesimahuman 5y ago
    As a startup employer in the Midwest this doesn’t resonate with me at all. We don’t care what school you went to as long as you’re good. In this hiring climate no one can afford to be weirdly selective about school
    - endemic 5y ago
      Same here, I helped do recruiting for a previous employer, a healthcare tech company in Columbus, OH. AFAIK the other local tech companies are fairly egalitarian regarding higher education.
    - PascLeRasc 5y ago
      Midwest is broad and from what I hear about Chicago and Minneapolis they're much more progressive. I'm referring mostly to Ohio/western Pennsylvania/WV. It's good to hear that you'd give local grads a chance though, thanks.
      - yesimahuman 5y ago
        As a midwesterner I should know better than to make generalizations about what is a huge and diverse region of America, so good reminder!
      - ericmay 5y ago
        People in Ohio, western PA, and WV are very, very friendly toward local university graduates. You’re more like to get a job in West Virginia graduating from Ohio State than you are Harvard… To your point about getting jobs at SpaceX and Amazon you have to leave the Midwest but that’s only after you graduate from Ohio State, Michigan, Purdue, Northwestern, Wisconsin, or any of the other schools these companies regularly recruit at. Have friends and colleagues at all of them. You’d be surprised.
  - ralmidani 5y ago
    I live in Columbus, worked at Chase, and currently work at ScriptDrop (we coordinate prescription deliveries). I don’t have a CS degree, just a bootcamp. I haven’t encountered, or heard of anyone who has encountered, any of the issues you mention (I’ve never had a PTO request turned down or even questioned). Small sample size, so maybe there are idiotic companies and managers out there, but they’re probably not as common as you suggest. Also, I prefer working for a company that has demonstrated and tangible real-world value. Not every problem in the world is an algorithm away from being solved.
    - vineyardmike 5y ago
      n-of-one here, but i worked at a rust belt company that was very similar to what was described above. Not quite as bad, but def along that way of the spectrum and not "free lunch wear whatever" of an sf startup.
      - yesimahuman 5y ago
        Rust belt company != tech startup/co though, right? We’re talking tech jobs at startups or later stage technology companies in the Midwest which are far more like typical tech startups elsewhere than not. Of course there are lots of shitty legacy companies here that would be awful to work for, but those companies exist everywhere
        vineyardmike 5y ago
        Rust Belt company = company in the rust belt that hired me to write software/tech. Pretty sure we were talking about tech jobs in the midwest (rust belt incl.). Its not a tech startup, but its sure a tech job.
        yesimahuman 5y ago
        Yea but my point is those companies are everywhere. If you go to work at a legacy company doing tech then you’re not working at the kind of company I’m talking about. Thankfully, tech companies that “get it” are far more numerous in the Midwest than even five years ago
  - projectazorian 5y ago
    Yeah, tons of exceptions, but the top tier of Midwestern startups are just as credential obsessed as their coastal counterparts in my experience. And overall I'd say pay, benefits, and labor practices are often worse as well. Even if you don't work for some old economy company - not all are as bad as the above post suggests btw - hustle culture is often the norm. But without the six figure West Coast salary, and often less/no equity. Not to mention that if you're dissatisfied, job hopping is a lot harder to do when there are only maybe a dozen companies in town - not all of which have your tech stack. Less of an issue now with remote. Even accounting for cost of living differences you can make more on the West Coast, and be in a more competitive job market that allows you to switch jobs easily if you want more pay or are tired of your current employer. The Midwest can still work out great for many people though! Maybe you want a big house, or you have family close by, or you want a leadership role that you'd never get in a million years at your big coastal employer, etc...
    - yesimahuman 5y ago
      Remote has made this far more equalized and competitive. Six figures are by far the norm for startup/tech salaries if you’ve started a new engineering job at a Midwest company in the last few years. I know many engineers making $150-200K+ and living here, along with equity.
  - throwawaygh 5y ago
    > won't hire anyone from regular local universities... get all their people from CMU... If you went to a place like Ohio State If Ohio State is Midwest then so is CMU... And surely those places hire like gangbusters out of UIUC, Wisconsin, and Michigan.
    - jgunaratne 5y ago
      Yes, CMU is in the Midwest. Pittsburgh is in the Midwest.
    - ericmay 5y ago
      Technically Pennsylvannia isn’t the Midwest but I don’t think you need CMU to prove your point - you can just list all sorts of other notable powerhouse Midwest schools.
      - throwawaygh 5y ago
        You mean like: >> And surely those places hire like gangbusters out of UIUC, Wisconsin, and Michigan ;-)
        ericmay 5y ago
        They do but it’s all the same stuff at the undergrad level. I don’t even think Ivy League schools matter much either it’s all about the individual. But I appreciate the dig xD
      - bart_spoon 5y ago
        The Midwest doesn’t neatly divide according to state lines. Cities like Pittsburg and Buffalo are pretty solidly Midwestern, despite the fact that the eastern parts of their states are definitely not.
jacobsenscott 5y ago
I was a developer for IBM in Rochester, MN 20 years ago, and an intern at Cray Research in Chippewa Falls WI before that. I have to say all the engineers were impressive, knowledgeable, and humble at the same time. Software engineering was looked on as profession, and not a lifestyle or a path to a quick buck, and it showed. I guess I don't know if that's how it was everywhere 20 years ago, or if that was the mid-west culture. But I sure do miss it.
- BooneJS 5y ago
  I spent 13 years at Cray in CF. Great start to my career.
vgeek 5y ago
Thanks for triggering my PTSD of working with both an insurance agency in Chicago and large bank in Cincinnati that were both launching new projects in Cold Fusion in 2016-2018. Luckily I was only development adjacent. Both orgs were very laid back and were typically 35 hour work weeks with moderated expectations and lots of 15+yr tenured people. If one wanted to slack and coast, it wouldn't really be noticed.

yesimahuman 5y ago

There are legacy companies everywhere. There are more than enough interesting startups or remote opportunities in the Midwest (city depending) that this isn’t really true any more

PascLeRasc 5y ago
The interesting companies (Duolingo, Argo, Root, maybe Capital One, etc) in the Midwest won't hire anyone from regular local universities. They get all their people from CMU/Stanford/UCs. If you went to a place like Ohio State the best you can hope for locally is DBA at an insurance company. A lot of the engineers I graduated with have given up on this and are doing real estate or retraining to become a teacher. You can work for SpaceX, Google, Amazon, but you need to move out of the Midwest first. So out of college you need to ask yourself if giving up all your local friends and family is worth having a fulfilling career. It's hard. The workplace culture is different too. If you're in the rust belt, your managers over age 50 came from manufacturing lines and were taught that they need to literally see you looking like you're working all the time and they'll use phrases like "extract value from human capital". They'll want you to beg and plead for permission to use your PTO, but then put in your performance review that you're getting a 1% instead of a 2% raise for excessive time off utilization. My friend's telecom workplace just announced that their holiday bonus is that they may wear jeans on Fridays all 2022.
- yesimahuman 5y ago
  As a startup employer in the Midwest this doesn’t resonate with me at all. We don’t care what school you went to as long as you’re good. In this hiring climate no one can afford to be weirdly selective about school
  - endemic 5y ago
    Same here, I helped do recruiting for a previous employer, a healthcare tech company in Columbus, OH. AFAIK the other local tech companies are fairly egalitarian regarding higher education.
  - PascLeRasc 5y ago
    Midwest is broad and from what I hear about Chicago and Minneapolis they're much more progressive. I'm referring mostly to Ohio/western Pennsylvania/WV. It's good to hear that you'd give local grads a chance though, thanks.
    - yesimahuman 5y ago
      As a midwesterner I should know better than to make generalizations about what is a huge and diverse region of America, so good reminder!
    - ericmay 5y ago
      People in Ohio, western PA, and WV are very, very friendly toward local university graduates. You’re more like to get a job in West Virginia graduating from Ohio State than you are Harvard… To your point about getting jobs at SpaceX and Amazon you have to leave the Midwest but that’s only after you graduate from Ohio State, Michigan, Purdue, Northwestern, Wisconsin, or any of the other schools these companies regularly recruit at. Have friends and colleagues at all of them. You’d be surprised.
- ralmidani 5y ago
  I live in Columbus, worked at Chase, and currently work at ScriptDrop (we coordinate prescription deliveries). I don’t have a CS degree, just a bootcamp. I haven’t encountered, or heard of anyone who has encountered, any of the issues you mention (I’ve never had a PTO request turned down or even questioned). Small sample size, so maybe there are idiotic companies and managers out there, but they’re probably not as common as you suggest. Also, I prefer working for a company that has demonstrated and tangible real-world value. Not every problem in the world is an algorithm away from being solved.
  - vineyardmike 5y ago
    n-of-one here, but i worked at a rust belt company that was very similar to what was described above. Not quite as bad, but def along that way of the spectrum and not "free lunch wear whatever" of an sf startup.
    - yesimahuman 5y ago
      Rust belt company != tech startup/co though, right? We’re talking tech jobs at startups or later stage technology companies in the Midwest which are far more like typical tech startups elsewhere than not. Of course there are lots of shitty legacy companies here that would be awful to work for, but those companies exist everywhere
      - vineyardmike 5y ago
        Rust Belt company = company in the rust belt that hired me to write software/tech. Pretty sure we were talking about tech jobs in the midwest (rust belt incl.). Its not a tech startup, but its sure a tech job.
        yesimahuman 5y ago
        Yea but my point is those companies are everywhere. If you go to work at a legacy company doing tech then you’re not working at the kind of company I’m talking about. Thankfully, tech companies that “get it” are far more numerous in the Midwest than even five years ago
- projectazorian 5y ago
  Yeah, tons of exceptions, but the top tier of Midwestern startups are just as credential obsessed as their coastal counterparts in my experience. And overall I'd say pay, benefits, and labor practices are often worse as well. Even if you don't work for some old economy company - not all are as bad as the above post suggests btw - hustle culture is often the norm. But without the six figure West Coast salary, and often less/no equity. Not to mention that if you're dissatisfied, job hopping is a lot harder to do when there are only maybe a dozen companies in town - not all of which have your tech stack. Less of an issue now with remote. Even accounting for cost of living differences you can make more on the West Coast, and be in a more competitive job market that allows you to switch jobs easily if you want more pay or are tired of your current employer. The Midwest can still work out great for many people though! Maybe you want a big house, or you have family close by, or you want a leadership role that you'd never get in a million years at your big coastal employer, etc...
  - yesimahuman 5y ago
    Remote has made this far more equalized and competitive. Six figures are by far the norm for startup/tech salaries if you’ve started a new engineering job at a Midwest company in the last few years. I know many engineers making $150-200K+ and living here, along with equity.
- throwawaygh 5y ago
  > won't hire anyone from regular local universities... get all their people from CMU... If you went to a place like Ohio State If Ohio State is Midwest then so is CMU... And surely those places hire like gangbusters out of UIUC, Wisconsin, and Michigan.
  - jgunaratne 5y ago
    Yes, CMU is in the Midwest. Pittsburgh is in the Midwest.
  - ericmay 5y ago
    Technically Pennsylvannia isn’t the Midwest but I don’t think you need CMU to prove your point - you can just list all sorts of other notable powerhouse Midwest schools.
    - throwawaygh 5y ago
      You mean like: >> And surely those places hire like gangbusters out of UIUC, Wisconsin, and Michigan ;-)
      - ericmay 5y ago
        They do but it’s all the same stuff at the undergrad level. I don’t even think Ivy League schools matter much either it’s all about the individual. But I appreciate the dig xD
    - bart_spoon 5y ago
      The Midwest doesn’t neatly divide according to state lines. Cities like Pittsburg and Buffalo are pretty solidly Midwestern, despite the fact that the eastern parts of their states are definitely not.

jacobsenscott 5y ago

I was a developer for IBM in Rochester, MN 20 years ago, and an intern at Cray Research in Chippewa Falls WI before that. I have to say all the engineers were impressive, knowledgeable, and humble at the same time. Software engineering was looked on as profession, and not a lifestyle or a path to a quick buck, and it showed. I guess I don't know if that's how it was everywhere 20 years ago, or if that was the mid-west culture. But I sure do miss it.

BooneJS 5y ago
I spent 13 years at Cray in CF. Great start to my career.

vgeek 5y ago

Thanks for triggering my PTSD of working with both an insurance agency in Chicago and large bank in Cincinnati that were both launching new projects in Cold Fusion in 2016-2018. Luckily I was only development adjacent. Both orgs were very laid back and were typically 35 hour work weeks with moderated expectations and lots of 15+yr tenured people. If one wanted to slack and coast, it wouldn't really be noticed.