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I don't understand. I can get an eSIM from my telecom provider and scan it with a QR Code to activate it in Android. I've done this with Telenor in Europe and Z

by aorth 5y ago

I don't understand. I can get an eSIM from my telecom provider and scan it with a QR Code to activate it in Android. I've done this with Telenor in Europe and Zain in the Middle East. It works great. I can even switch between them on the fly! How does the phone manufacturer have anything to do with it? My only wish is to support multiple eSIMs, as now I only have one physical SIM slot and one eSIM.

dragon_greens 5y ago
They added support for that (atleast with dual eSIMs) in iPhone 13s. https://support.apple.com/en-in/HT209044 https://support.apple.com/en-in/HT209044
sandworm101 5y ago
You can get one today. Tomorrow, after a "security update", apple could just decide that it doesnt like certain ISPs and reject thier virtual sims. Rejecting hardware sims is much more difficult and is likely a violation in many jurisdictions.
- xxpor 5y ago
  Why wouldn't rejecting eSIMs be a violation then?
  - Gigachad 5y ago
    It would be illegal in most of the world.
- avianlyric 5y ago
  They pretty much used to do that physical SIMs. For the longest time Apple wouldn’t accept network profiles many MVNO in the U.K. which mean the phone would completely ignore the config on SIM and stuff like internet wouldn’t work. You could still get everything working by manually configuring the phone, and carriers like GiffGaff had support articles explaining how, but it was a total pain in the arse and stuff would occasionally break in subtle ways. Additionally the eSIM is separate physical chip within the phone attached to baseband radio. Once configured with a profile, the host OS has as much access as it does to a normal SIM, I.e. not much. The entire standard is kinda a hack, which basically boils down to “what if we embedded a normal SIM card chip in the phone, and let the phone flash a new carrier profile every now and then?”. Remember these SIMs are fully fledged computers, like their normal removable counterparts, that can ignore host OS commands, and issue instructions directly to the baseband processor without the host OS knowledge.
- rosndo 5y ago
  Can you find these regulations that apply specifically to physical SIM cards? No? Weird.
jandrese 5y ago
And then to switch the eSIM to your other phone/hotspot is super easy right?
ubercow13 5y ago
Apples eSIM is not the same as that open eSIM standard. eSIMs that work with iPhones have to be supplied via a direct agreement with Apple as far as I understand.
- avianlyric 5y ago
  What are you basing that assertion on? All the eSIMs I’ve ever used have come direct from the carrier, and in some cases those carriers have very small presence and aren’t know for being at the front of Apple queue for services. Then there’s the dozens of companies in the App Store like https://www.dentwireless.com/ https://www.dentwireless.com/ who all provide eSIMs for international travel. I find it hard to believe they all have agreements with Apple, it normally costs far to much to deal with Apple for bottom dollar companies to make any money.
  - ubercow13 5y ago
    There are various threads on their developer forums alluding to it, eg. https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/109874 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/109874 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/110829 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/110829 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/109797 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/109797
    - avianlyric 5y ago
      Of the threads you’ve listed, one deals with app entitlements to call the addPlan API, which is nice to have so a carrier app can directly provision an eSIM, but not needed for eSIM provisioning via QR code. For the other two threads, it’s the same person both times making the assertion Apple’s eSIM is proprietary, with all comments being 3 years olds and discussing a beta iOS version. So would take all of those sources with a large pinch of salt. If Apples eSIMs we’re proprietary, I would expect to be easy to find articles discussing the fact, given they’ve been around for a few years now.
- smoovb 5y ago
  I'm in the eSIM business and the same QR code you can scan on an iPhone will work on a Pixel, Samsung and a few other eSIM supporting devices. You might be thinking of the Apple SIM, where Apple to work directly with those carriers.
throwntoday 5y ago
This has not been my experience in the US. The eSIM QR code appears to be one time use with two major carriers I've used (AT&T/T-Mobile). I could not simply scan the previous QR code when I got a new phone I had to go into the store and request another. A physical SIM in contrast always works. I was already questioning whether I'd ever need to upgrade from the 12 Pro but this type of needless regression makes it an easy decision.

by aorth 5y ago

dragon_greens 5y ago

They added support for that (atleast with dual eSIMs) in iPhone 13s. https://support.apple.com/en-in/HT209044 https://support.apple.com/en-in/HT209044

sandworm101 5y ago

You can get one today. Tomorrow, after a "security update", apple could just decide that it doesnt like certain ISPs and reject thier virtual sims. Rejecting hardware sims is much more difficult and is likely a violation in many jurisdictions.

xxpor 5y ago
Why wouldn't rejecting eSIMs be a violation then?
- Gigachad 5y ago
  It would be illegal in most of the world.
avianlyric 5y ago
They pretty much used to do that physical SIMs. For the longest time Apple wouldn’t accept network profiles many MVNO in the U.K. which mean the phone would completely ignore the config on SIM and stuff like internet wouldn’t work. You could still get everything working by manually configuring the phone, and carriers like GiffGaff had support articles explaining how, but it was a total pain in the arse and stuff would occasionally break in subtle ways. Additionally the eSIM is separate physical chip within the phone attached to baseband radio. Once configured with a profile, the host OS has as much access as it does to a normal SIM, I.e. not much. The entire standard is kinda a hack, which basically boils down to “what if we embedded a normal SIM card chip in the phone, and let the phone flash a new carrier profile every now and then?”. Remember these SIMs are fully fledged computers, like their normal removable counterparts, that can ignore host OS commands, and issue instructions directly to the baseband processor without the host OS knowledge.
rosndo 5y ago
Can you find these regulations that apply specifically to physical SIM cards? No? Weird.

jandrese 5y ago

And then to switch the eSIM to your other phone/hotspot is super easy right?

ubercow13 5y ago

Apples eSIM is not the same as that open eSIM standard. eSIMs that work with iPhones have to be supplied via a direct agreement with Apple as far as I understand.

avianlyric 5y ago
What are you basing that assertion on? All the eSIMs I’ve ever used have come direct from the carrier, and in some cases those carriers have very small presence and aren’t know for being at the front of Apple queue for services. Then there’s the dozens of companies in the App Store like https://www.dentwireless.com/ https://www.dentwireless.com/ who all provide eSIMs for international travel. I find it hard to believe they all have agreements with Apple, it normally costs far to much to deal with Apple for bottom dollar companies to make any money.
- ubercow13 5y ago
  There are various threads on their developer forums alluding to it, eg. https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/109874 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/109874 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/110829 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/110829 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/109797 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/109797
  - avianlyric 5y ago
    Of the threads you’ve listed, one deals with app entitlements to call the addPlan API, which is nice to have so a carrier app can directly provision an eSIM, but not needed for eSIM provisioning via QR code. For the other two threads, it’s the same person both times making the assertion Apple’s eSIM is proprietary, with all comments being 3 years olds and discussing a beta iOS version. So would take all of those sources with a large pinch of salt. If Apples eSIMs we’re proprietary, I would expect to be easy to find articles discussing the fact, given they’ve been around for a few years now.
smoovb 5y ago
I'm in the eSIM business and the same QR code you can scan on an iPhone will work on a Pixel, Samsung and a few other eSIM supporting devices. You might be thinking of the Apple SIM, where Apple to work directly with those carriers.

throwntoday 5y ago

This has not been my experience in the US. The eSIM QR code appears to be one time use with two major carriers I've used (AT&T/T-Mobile). I could not simply scan the previous QR code when I got a new phone I had to go into the store and request another. A physical SIM in contrast always works. I was already questioning whether I'd ever need to upgrade from the 12 Pro but this type of needless regression makes it an easy decision.