4 ms·

CS PhDs can ALWAYS get tenure-track academic jobs. Maybe not at a top R1, but getting a university teaching job in CS is not some sort of prize. You got to be

by p1esk 5y ago

CS PhDs can ALWAYS get tenure-track academic jobs. Maybe not at a top R1, but getting a university teaching job in CS is not some sort of prize. You got to be kidding. Competition for CS tenure track positions is insane. At my school, which is ranked around 50 in the nation, you would have to be pretty outstanding to get it (most candidates were from top-5 schools, in hottest fields, with many strong publications). I’ve heard such numbers as 100 candidates for a single spot.

chrisseaton 5y ago
They need CS lecturers all the way down to the worst college in the country. Hundreds and hundreds of departments. Everyone applies to the top, but they filter down, and if you look at who’s teaching at the lowest they clearly aren’t superstars and it wouldn’t take much to compete with them.
throwawaygh 5y ago
> At my school, which is ranked around 50 in the nation Top 50 on US News & World Report or CS Rankings means you're at a very good R1 institution. At #50, your institution is ranked ABOVE places like Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, RIT, Syracuse, Clemson, ... You do realize that the USA has nearly 4,000 colleges, right? If you scroll all the way down to the bottom of the CS rankings in US News, you reach Walden University at #186. Which means the colleges that US news even bothers to rank in CS constitute less than 1% of the total number of colleges in the US. And you're at a place that's in the top third of the <1%!!! When I say academic CS jobs are easy to get, I'm referring to jobs at the >3,500 US higher ed institutions that aren't even included in US New's CS rankings. Again, in fields like Mathematics or Biology even TT jobs at unranked/low ranked places are non-trivial to secure.
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  That’s funny because I’m at Tulane and they can’t seem to hire or retain worth shit.
  - throwawaygh 5y ago
    If I had to guess, OP is at an institution in the northeast/west/Chicago. Academic CS recruiting in the south and in mid-tier cities is typically more difficult (some of that might be preference, but the big thing is two body problems. I love New Orleans but can't imagine solving an academic two body problem there is particularly easy).
    - killjoywashere 5y ago
      > two body problem You mean a spouse also on an academic track?
      - throwawaygh 5y ago
        Yes. (Not just academic. Any specialized professional track outside of Medicine/Law.)
    - ModernMech 5y ago
      For anyone wondering: the two body problem is a phenomenon that happens when two academics marry. They both want an academic job together, at the same institution preferably, but there's usually only enough room for 1. What many couples do to solve this is accept postdocs at different universities (because there's a two body problem for post docs too, so you can't usually find 2 postdoc positions at the same institution), and then wait around until they can find two assistant professorship openings at the same institution. Sometimes if the candidate is really good, one department will ask another to make room for another faculty there. But that can be a political nightmare. Or if both researchers are in the same field e.g. CS, then the department might have to hire both even if they really only would take the one. It's quite a problem for hiring.
_delirium 5y ago
To give a different anecdote: at my school which is ranked closer to 100, we got 40 applicants, of which about 15 meet basic qualifications we're looking for (have a PhD, in the right field, have any kind of publication record, have ever taught a class). And I think we are doing pretty well compared to some places, since we're in a major coastal city and have a relatively light teaching load for a non-R1 place (2/2). A lot of places have been outright failing their CS faculty searches in the past few years, and I think more than usual will fail this year.
- throwawaygh 5y ago
  > 40 applicants... about 15 meet basic qualifications we're looking for... 2/2 load... major coastal city Wow. Things are even worse than I thought. Your institution sounds like the rare type of place that shouldn't have a problem hiring. Good luck with your search. > have a PhD, in the right field, have any kind of publication record, have ever taught a class Most places with a teaching load higher than 3/2 dropped all three of those requirements from their job ads years ago.
deleted 5y ago
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by p1esk 5y ago

chrisseaton 5y ago

They need CS lecturers all the way down to the worst college in the country. Hundreds and hundreds of departments. Everyone applies to the top, but they filter down, and if you look at who’s teaching at the lowest they clearly aren’t superstars and it wouldn’t take much to compete with them.

throwawaygh 5y ago

> At my school, which is ranked around 50 in the nation Top 50 on US News & World Report or CS Rankings means you're at a very good R1 institution. At #50, your institution is ranked ABOVE places like Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, RIT, Syracuse, Clemson, ... You do realize that the USA has nearly 4,000 colleges, right? If you scroll all the way down to the bottom of the CS rankings in US News, you reach Walden University at #186. Which means the colleges that US news even bothers to rank in CS constitute less than 1% of the total number of colleges in the US. And you're at a place that's in the top third of the <1%!!! When I say academic CS jobs are easy to get, I'm referring to jobs at the >3,500 US higher ed institutions that aren't even included in US New's CS rankings. Again, in fields like Mathematics or Biology even TT jobs at unranked/low ranked places are non-trivial to secure.

selimthegrim 5y ago
That’s funny because I’m at Tulane and they can’t seem to hire or retain worth shit.
- throwawaygh 5y ago
  If I had to guess, OP is at an institution in the northeast/west/Chicago. Academic CS recruiting in the south and in mid-tier cities is typically more difficult (some of that might be preference, but the big thing is two body problems. I love New Orleans but can't imagine solving an academic two body problem there is particularly easy).
  - killjoywashere 5y ago
    > two body problem You mean a spouse also on an academic track?
    - throwawaygh 5y ago
      Yes. (Not just academic. Any specialized professional track outside of Medicine/Law.)
  - ModernMech 5y ago
    For anyone wondering: the two body problem is a phenomenon that happens when two academics marry. They both want an academic job together, at the same institution preferably, but there's usually only enough room for 1. What many couples do to solve this is accept postdocs at different universities (because there's a two body problem for post docs too, so you can't usually find 2 postdoc positions at the same institution), and then wait around until they can find two assistant professorship openings at the same institution. Sometimes if the candidate is really good, one department will ask another to make room for another faculty there. But that can be a political nightmare. Or if both researchers are in the same field e.g. CS, then the department might have to hire both even if they really only would take the one. It's quite a problem for hiring.

_delirium 5y ago

To give a different anecdote: at my school which is ranked closer to 100, we got 40 applicants, of which about 15 meet basic qualifications we're looking for (have a PhD, in the right field, have any kind of publication record, have ever taught a class). And I think we are doing pretty well compared to some places, since we're in a major coastal city and have a relatively light teaching load for a non-R1 place (2/2). A lot of places have been outright failing their CS faculty searches in the past few years, and I think more than usual will fail this year.

throwawaygh 5y ago
> 40 applicants... about 15 meet basic qualifications we're looking for... 2/2 load... major coastal city Wow. Things are even worse than I thought. Your institution sounds like the rare type of place that shouldn't have a problem hiring. Good luck with your search. > have a PhD, in the right field, have any kind of publication record, have ever taught a class Most places with a teaching load higher than 3/2 dropped all three of those requirements from their job ads years ago.

deleted 5y ago

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