28 ms·

This depends on broader society accepting that COVID is endemic though, and the cessation of all sorts of regulations. I don't doubt it will happen eventually,

This depends on broader society accepting that COVID is endemic though, and the cessation of all sorts of regulations. I don't doubt it will happen eventually, but I'm not sure if another year is enough time. There has to be some sort of common knowledge catalyst that changes the general approach; as long as events are still being cancelled due to COVID cases, we're not out of the woods and "living with the disease" quite yet. Additionally, I think "undoing" the remote workforce transition is going to be nigh impossible for many companies. How do you get your employees back to the office? You probably tell them their employment is contingent on being in the office; that's the only leverage you really have as an employer. Many people have moved since the onset of the pandemic, and with the labor market as tight as it is, few companies are going to be able to stomach laying off employees who moved away and don't want to move somewhere near a physical office location. So companies have a Hobson's choice: declare an "on-site" culture and axe all the people who no longer wish to be on-site (with no guarantee that you'll be able to hire replacements in a timely manner), or declare a "hybrid" culture and allow people to opt into coming into the office instead of having it mandated (with no guarantee that people will actually show up to the office and make your real estate expenses worthwhile). I think a lot of companies are going to choose option #2 now, and a lot of those who choose #2 are going to reevaluate that gargantuan office lease expense in a few years' time when comparing the cost with the actual utilization of the space. I think a not-insignificant portion of the option #2 companies will end up being "full remote" companies as a result, it'll just take them a few years to get there. I think the option #1 companies will probably be fine if they're in cities where there's enough talent, but their long-term success is kind of a toss-up in my opinion. It truly depends on whether the social benefits of in-person interaction gives them a competitive advantage versus world-spanning remote companies who can be more selective with their talent.

robbintt 5y ago
Endemic is not a social condition that people "accept". It means the virus is found at a baseline level without external inputs (wikipedia).
- yCombLinks 5y ago
  It doesn't really matter how wikipedia defines it, what matters is how governments and companies are going to behave, and how long it takes them to realize covid is here to stay.
  - frenchyatwork 5y ago
    It matters as words are useful for communication only if we can come to some agreement about what they mean. What you're suggesting is that people accept that the cost of avoiding COVID and "flattening the curve" isn't worth it, and that we just let the curve do its thing. Hopefully the result that it will either become endemic or extinct, but neither of those are certain.
tehjoker 5y ago
All you guys living with the virus are going to enjoy the decreased life bars of everyone in the office thanks to long COVID. Enjoy having 20% of your friends disabled and early onset dementia with sporadic large outbreaks of system overwhelming disease.
- spookthesunset 5y ago
  What the heck are you even talking about? Dude. Covid is here forever. You are vaccinated and possibly boosted. You are as safe as it is ever gonna get. Move on!
  - tehjoker 5y ago
    Omicron has already demonstrated that vaccine evasion is inevitable, we are vaccinating against the extinct Wuhan virus. Global human elimination of SARS2 is necessary or you will see in both your personal life and in the broader economy continued disability, death, and drags on productivity. There is some speculation that the "worker shortage" is due in part to workers with long COVID who want to return to work but can't. I do not know how large of an effect it is, but I can promise you it is real. My perspective is we are living in a time of crisis and we must muster the reserves to forcefully challenge the problems of our time. Furthermore, COVID-19, a mass disabling event, may take years to resolve. If it takes 5 years to avoid catching it, I will have decades of healthy life remaining.
    - KptMarchewa 5y ago
      >Global human elimination of SARS2 Yawn. This will never happen, and no one even cares. Long covid is just 1% of 1% cases that are psychosomatic and way overblown.
      - tehjoker 5y ago
        In unvaccinated cases, persistent symptoms appear in ~20% of mild cases, 50% for hospitalized [0]. Vaccines prevent contracting the virus, but afaik similar rates for those that contract it. Long COVID symptoms range across many body systems including pain, fatigue, brain fog, inability to stand, heart damage, tinnitus (one CEO to the point they committed suicide [1]), kidney, and pancreatic damage. More results are being found routinely. Your attitude is quite callous. I hope that if you were on the receiving end of the stick, other people will not dismiss you the same way you've dismissed them. [0] https://s3.amazonaws.com/media2.fairhealth.org/whitepaper/asset/A%20Detailed%20Study%20of%20Patients%20with%20Long-Haul%20COVID--An%20Analysis%20of%20Private%20Healthcare%20Claims--A%20FAIR%20Health%20White%20Paper.pdf https://s3.amazonaws.com/media2.fairhealth.org/whitepaper/as... [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/ninashapiro/2021/03/21/texas-roadhouse-ceo-suicide-post-covid-19-tinnitus-contributed/?sh=37eeb79f2940 https://www.forbes.com/sites/ninashapiro/2021/03/21/texas-ro...

robbintt 5y ago

Endemic is not a social condition that people "accept". It means the virus is found at a baseline level without external inputs (wikipedia).

yCombLinks 5y ago
It doesn't really matter how wikipedia defines it, what matters is how governments and companies are going to behave, and how long it takes them to realize covid is here to stay.
- frenchyatwork 5y ago
  It matters as words are useful for communication only if we can come to some agreement about what they mean. What you're suggesting is that people accept that the cost of avoiding COVID and "flattening the curve" isn't worth it, and that we just let the curve do its thing. Hopefully the result that it will either become endemic or extinct, but neither of those are certain.

tehjoker 5y ago

All you guys living with the virus are going to enjoy the decreased life bars of everyone in the office thanks to long COVID. Enjoy having 20% of your friends disabled and early onset dementia with sporadic large outbreaks of system overwhelming disease.

spookthesunset 5y ago
What the heck are you even talking about? Dude. Covid is here forever. You are vaccinated and possibly boosted. You are as safe as it is ever gonna get. Move on!
- tehjoker 5y ago
  Omicron has already demonstrated that vaccine evasion is inevitable, we are vaccinating against the extinct Wuhan virus. Global human elimination of SARS2 is necessary or you will see in both your personal life and in the broader economy continued disability, death, and drags on productivity. There is some speculation that the "worker shortage" is due in part to workers with long COVID who want to return to work but can't. I do not know how large of an effect it is, but I can promise you it is real. My perspective is we are living in a time of crisis and we must muster the reserves to forcefully challenge the problems of our time. Furthermore, COVID-19, a mass disabling event, may take years to resolve. If it takes 5 years to avoid catching it, I will have decades of healthy life remaining.
  - KptMarchewa 5y ago
    >Global human elimination of SARS2 Yawn. This will never happen, and no one even cares. Long covid is just 1% of 1% cases that are psychosomatic and way overblown.
    - tehjoker 5y ago
      In unvaccinated cases, persistent symptoms appear in ~20% of mild cases, 50% for hospitalized [0]. Vaccines prevent contracting the virus, but afaik similar rates for those that contract it. Long COVID symptoms range across many body systems including pain, fatigue, brain fog, inability to stand, heart damage, tinnitus (one CEO to the point they committed suicide [1]), kidney, and pancreatic damage. More results are being found routinely. Your attitude is quite callous. I hope that if you were on the receiving end of the stick, other people will not dismiss you the same way you've dismissed them. [0] https://s3.amazonaws.com/media2.fairhealth.org/whitepaper/asset/A%20Detailed%20Study%20of%20Patients%20with%20Long-Haul%20COVID--An%20Analysis%20of%20Private%20Healthcare%20Claims--A%20FAIR%20Health%20White%20Paper.pdf https://s3.amazonaws.com/media2.fairhealth.org/whitepaper/as... [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/ninashapiro/2021/03/21/texas-roadhouse-ceo-suicide-post-covid-19-tinnitus-contributed/?sh=37eeb79f2940 https://www.forbes.com/sites/ninashapiro/2021/03/21/texas-ro...