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University does not teach critical thinking. They teach assignments and tests, where the information is forgotten as quickly as it was received. You do not lear

University does not teach critical thinking. They teach assignments and tests, where the information is forgotten as quickly as it was received. You do not learn critical thinking having to remember every definition in the textbook. Yet that is still how classes work. Whatever the intent of liberal arts, it's a clear demonstrable failure now. You should not be able to graduate without being able to think for yourself on a wide range of topics. Yet here we are, and we know that people heavily compartmentalize and have severe difficulties getting into the professions related to their degree. Even the employers no longer believe a degree serves critical thinking. It just says you have debt, are willing to work for less, and will be easy to push over. We can no longer economically afford to keep the social experiment going. The poor are kept poor and the rich rich with the insane requirements and costs of a degree. Defund universities across the board, fire the accreditors, remove all these nonesense old people sitting on a government paycheck stolen from the middle class.

throwoutway 5y ago
> Even the employers no longer believe a degree serves critical thinking. It just says you have debt, are willing to work for less, and will be easy to push over. I’ve been told (by employers) that “it only shows that you can stick to something for four years without giving up”. Which makes it a ridiculously expensive proposition
rileyphone 5y ago
There are plenty of university classes that go beyond “teaching assignments and tests”, though they’re easy to miss. My favorite courses were those in a room of less than 20 where speaking in the class felt natural and encouraged, whether a math or philosophy class, and grades were evaluated from demonstrating understanding. I believe that making student loans expellable in bankruptcy would go a long way to righting the bloated costs and budgets we see today. There’s also probably a case for setting a price ceiling based on a multiple of the local minimum wage, as well as a whole slew of strategies to be explored before launching a salvo against the research institutions that power our scientific progress.
8note 5y ago
The only university courses I know of that are about rote memorization are biology classes, but those aren't liberal arts per se.
csh0 5y ago
OP mentioned that he believes that liberal arts colleges do teach critical thinking. You responded by saying that universities do not teach critical thinking and then you went on to claim that the liberal arts initiative is a "clear demonstrable failure" but I am not really sure what you mean by this. I think you are conflating liberal arts the subject, sometimes used as an umbrella term for the humanities, with liberal arts colleges. Could you explain? Liberal arts colleges, as OP was referring to, have only awarded 4-5% of all bachelor's degrees conferred on a yearly basis for the last decade[0]. In light of this information, I find it difficult to believe that liberal arts colleges are the source of the problems you claim, considering that the vast majority of bachelor's degree holders went to a non-LAC. It would be strange to look at the entire population of BA/BS recipients, note some lack of critical thinking ability in them, and then focus your energy on the source of only 5% of them. If you are interested to point fingers at a major source of student debt and a place where "critical thinking skills" are definitely not being taught, consider for-profit colleges as a potential candidate. "For-profit colleges only enroll 10 percent of students but they account for half of all student-loan defaults."[1] [0]https://www.gettysburg.edu/offices/institutional-analysis/pdfs/2020/PctofBachelorsDegreesfromLACs_AY2010-2019.pdf https://www.gettysburg.edu/offices/institutional-analysis/pd... [1]https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/whos-fault-student-loan-defaults# https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/whos-fault-student-loan-...
- the_only_law 5y ago
  Scary thing is, I’ve seen non-profit public and private universities start to act like for-profits.
vanusa 5y ago
University does not teach critical thinking. They teach assignments and tests, where the information is forgotten as quickly as it was received. You do not learn critical thinking having to remember every definition in the textbook. Yet that is still how classes work. Depends what school you go to and crucially -- your attitude going into that school. I never once thought of my education as a matter of learning a set of definitions, or even a series of concepts. But rather -- as the teachers at my (far from elite) high school articulated to me -- as a process, a way of learning where ideas really come from, and for "learning how to learn". You're perfectly right -- classes by themselves just don't do much. It's your decision to sit down and learn the material, not just for the test, but for the sake of you're life's work and the person you want to be -- that's when you start learning. But if you expect to just show up and heave your head filled with knowledge -- let alone critical thinking skills -- you're going to be bitterly disappointed.

throwoutway 5y ago

> Even the employers no longer believe a degree serves critical thinking. It just says you have debt, are willing to work for less, and will be easy to push over. I’ve been told (by employers) that “it only shows that you can stick to something for four years without giving up”. Which makes it a ridiculously expensive proposition

rileyphone 5y ago

There are plenty of university classes that go beyond “teaching assignments and tests”, though they’re easy to miss. My favorite courses were those in a room of less than 20 where speaking in the class felt natural and encouraged, whether a math or philosophy class, and grades were evaluated from demonstrating understanding. I believe that making student loans expellable in bankruptcy would go a long way to righting the bloated costs and budgets we see today. There’s also probably a case for setting a price ceiling based on a multiple of the local minimum wage, as well as a whole slew of strategies to be explored before launching a salvo against the research institutions that power our scientific progress.

8note 5y ago

The only university courses I know of that are about rote memorization are biology classes, but those aren't liberal arts per se.

csh0 5y ago

OP mentioned that he believes that liberal arts colleges do teach critical thinking. You responded by saying that universities do not teach critical thinking and then you went on to claim that the liberal arts initiative is a "clear demonstrable failure" but I am not really sure what you mean by this. I think you are conflating liberal arts the subject, sometimes used as an umbrella term for the humanities, with liberal arts colleges. Could you explain? Liberal arts colleges, as OP was referring to, have only awarded 4-5% of all bachelor's degrees conferred on a yearly basis for the last decade[0]. In light of this information, I find it difficult to believe that liberal arts colleges are the source of the problems you claim, considering that the vast majority of bachelor's degree holders went to a non-LAC. It would be strange to look at the entire population of BA/BS recipients, note some lack of critical thinking ability in them, and then focus your energy on the source of only 5% of them. If you are interested to point fingers at a major source of student debt and a place where "critical thinking skills" are definitely not being taught, consider for-profit colleges as a potential candidate. "For-profit colleges only enroll 10 percent of students but they account for half of all student-loan defaults."[1] [0]https://www.gettysburg.edu/offices/institutional-analysis/pdfs/2020/PctofBachelorsDegreesfromLACs_AY2010-2019.pdf https://www.gettysburg.edu/offices/institutional-analysis/pd... [1]https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/whos-fault-student-loan-defaults# https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/whos-fault-student-loan-...

the_only_law 5y ago
Scary thing is, I’ve seen non-profit public and private universities start to act like for-profits.

vanusa 5y ago

University does not teach critical thinking. They teach assignments and tests, where the information is forgotten as quickly as it was received. You do not learn critical thinking having to remember every definition in the textbook. Yet that is still how classes work. Depends what school you go to and crucially -- your attitude going into that school. I never once thought of my education as a matter of learning a set of definitions, or even a series of concepts. But rather -- as the teachers at my (far from elite) high school articulated to me -- as a process, a way of learning where ideas really come from, and for "learning how to learn". You're perfectly right -- classes by themselves just don't do much. It's your decision to sit down and learn the material, not just for the test, but for the sake of you're life's work and the person you want to be -- that's when you start learning. But if you expect to just show up and heave your head filled with knowledge -- let alone critical thinking skills -- you're going to be bitterly disappointed.