4 ms·

It's encrypted but not e2e encrypted. Why would you say that it is virtually public? Do you think you or the FBI can easily access Telegram messages?

by berns 5y ago

randomhodler84 5y ago
Because telegram can access the messages. If the vendor can access the message data (eg: not end to end encrypted), anyone can. That is the bar. E2E||GTFO.
yosito 5y ago
Just join a group chat. Every message that was ever sent in that chat will be immediately visible. So yeah, it's virtually public. Even your private messages only require you to enter an SMS code to view, so anyone that can intercept an SMS sent to you, can read your messages.
- maqp 5y ago
  >So yeah, it's virtually public. Let's stop saying that as it implies users are somehow aware the service provider has access to the content, and that they make an informed decisions wrt their privacy. >Even your private messages only require you to enter an SMS code to view, so anyone that can intercept an SMS sent to you, can read your messages. The 2FA password is something everyone should enable. It's still an incremental security improvement if you have to use Telegram and your threatmodel is a banana dictatorship doing SMS interception but not server-side hacking. The right thing to do is get yourself and your loved ones the hell out of Telegram as soon as possible; Signal is your best bet here. Cwtch/Briar if you need to also protect metadata.
  - emptysongglass 5y ago
    > The right thing to do is get yourself and your loved ones the hell out of Telegram as soon as possible; Signal is your best bet here. Cwtch/Briar if you need to also protect metadata. No, this is not the right move. It's engaging with the ecosystem of messaging products balancing ease of use, ethics of the business and people behind it, and your own threat profile. Most will never be under threat of a state actor that necessitates getting their friends and family "the hell out of Telegram as soon as possible". I also use Matrix but personally speaking I find Moxie Marlinspike a deeply unethical person who will gleefully slander the competition including up to suing them in his quest for supremacy. So I don't touch Signal because on my tripod of interests to balance, I don't want to go anywhere near his ethics. Use Signal or Session or Element or Telegram but stop telling people not to use a thing because you believe E2EE is the next Jesus Christ. Only sith deal in absolutes.
    - randomhodler84 5y ago
      E2E||GTFO. Anything else is tyranny. I don’t think you understand your adversary. Moxie is the most ethical individual in this space. Get the hell out of telegram, and get your other friends to do so asap.
      - emptysongglass 5y ago
        > E2E||GTFO Please don't do that here. It's both personally insulting and a motto used by fanatics, not an argument for anything. Who is "my adversary" exactly and what do they want with me? No, I don't think Moxie's past and current behavior is indicative of a person who subscribes to ethics. I think he's vain, eager to be in the spotlight and eager to profit off a cryptocurrency invented by a company he has a very complicated history with [1]. [1] https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2021/04/09/signal-founder-may-have-been-more-than-a-tech-adviser-to-mobilecoin/ https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2021/04/09/signal-founder-may-...
        randomhodler84 5y ago
        Your adversary wants the clear text of your messages. The clear text exists on server, or they exist on a client device. Client device is the only acceptable solution. Make it hard for them, they must hack your client, rather than send an email. It IS an argument against snake oil, server side “encryption”. Sorry, this is a hacker board. I, and others hackers, agree with me. E2E||GTFO.
        maqp 5y ago
        "Who is "my adversary" exactly and what do they want with me?" He will extort money from you based on your private message history, when they eventually leak from Telegram's effectively plaintext database. >I think he's vain, eager to be in the spotlight and eager to profit off a cryptocurrency That says more about you than about Moxie. You've shown your character, now strongly consider showing yourself out.
        emptysongglass 5y ago

It's encrypted but not e2e encrypted. Why would you say that it is virtually public? Do you think you or the FBI can easily access Telegram messages?

by berns 5y ago

It's encrypted but not e2e encrypted. Why would you say that it is virtually public? Do you think you or the FBI can easily access Telegram messages?

randomhodler84 5y ago

Because telegram can access the messages. If the vendor can access the message data (eg: not end to end encrypted), anyone can. That is the bar. E2E||GTFO.

yosito 5y ago

Just join a group chat. Every message that was ever sent in that chat will be immediately visible. So yeah, it's virtually public. Even your private messages only require you to enter an SMS code to view, so anyone that can intercept an SMS sent to you, can read your messages.

maqp 5y ago
>So yeah, it's virtually public. Let's stop saying that as it implies users are somehow aware the service provider has access to the content, and that they make an informed decisions wrt their privacy. >Even your private messages only require you to enter an SMS code to view, so anyone that can intercept an SMS sent to you, can read your messages. The 2FA password is something everyone should enable. It's still an incremental security improvement if you have to use Telegram and your threatmodel is a banana dictatorship doing SMS interception but not server-side hacking. The right thing to do is get yourself and your loved ones the hell out of Telegram as soon as possible; Signal is your best bet here. Cwtch/Briar if you need to also protect metadata.
- emptysongglass 5y ago
  > The right thing to do is get yourself and your loved ones the hell out of Telegram as soon as possible; Signal is your best bet here. Cwtch/Briar if you need to also protect metadata. No, this is not the right move. It's engaging with the ecosystem of messaging products balancing ease of use, ethics of the business and people behind it, and your own threat profile. Most will never be under threat of a state actor that necessitates getting their friends and family "the hell out of Telegram as soon as possible". I also use Matrix but personally speaking I find Moxie Marlinspike a deeply unethical person who will gleefully slander the competition including up to suing them in his quest for supremacy. So I don't touch Signal because on my tripod of interests to balance, I don't want to go anywhere near his ethics. Use Signal or Session or Element or Telegram but stop telling people not to use a thing because you believe E2EE is the next Jesus Christ. Only sith deal in absolutes.
  - randomhodler84 5y ago
    E2E||GTFO. Anything else is tyranny. I don’t think you understand your adversary. Moxie is the most ethical individual in this space. Get the hell out of telegram, and get your other friends to do so asap.
    - emptysongglass 5y ago
      > E2E||GTFO Please don't do that here. It's both personally insulting and a motto used by fanatics, not an argument for anything. Who is "my adversary" exactly and what do they want with me? No, I don't think Moxie's past and current behavior is indicative of a person who subscribes to ethics. I think he's vain, eager to be in the spotlight and eager to profit off a cryptocurrency invented by a company he has a very complicated history with [1]. [1] https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2021/04/09/signal-founder-may-have-been-more-than-a-tech-adviser-to-mobilecoin/ https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2021/04/09/signal-founder-may-...
      - randomhodler84 5y ago
        Your adversary wants the clear text of your messages. The clear text exists on server, or they exist on a client device. Client device is the only acceptable solution. Make it hard for them, they must hack your client, rather than send an email. It IS an argument against snake oil, server side “encryption”. Sorry, this is a hacker board. I, and others hackers, agree with me. E2E||GTFO.
      - maqp 5y ago
        "Who is "my adversary" exactly and what do they want with me?" He will extort money from you based on your private message history, when they eventually leak from Telegram's effectively plaintext database. >I think he's vain, eager to be in the spotlight and eager to profit off a cryptocurrency That says more about you than about Moxie. You've shown your character, now strongly consider showing yourself out.
        emptysongglass 5y ago