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Telegram moved out of Russia precisely so they wouldn't be under their influence, so that's wild speculation. If the argument is that the KGB (or is it FSB now?

Telegram moved out of Russia precisely so they wouldn't be under their influence, so that's wild speculation. If the argument is that the KGB (or is it FSB now?) might go and just put a gun to their head: they could do that to literally anyone anywhere, so it doesn't matter. Telegram was in Berlin for a while but moved out of Germany for privacy/legal reasons as well (good call, considering that Germany is discussing trying to outlaw them) and moved to Dubai iirc.

lowwave 5y ago
Telegram is influenced by FB of Russian VK (something like that). And VK has KGB tights. This is from Ukraine activists point of view just FYI. So your choices is Signal or Wire. Signal sever is in US, and Wire may or may not be in US. So there you go.
- emptysongglass 5y ago
  The grandparent comment was already hearsay but yours really scrapes the bottom of the barrel. Durov was forced out of VK on threat of violence: there are no ties to VK.
  - boeingUH60 5y ago
    No, there are ties, even though Durov was forced out. Durov sold his VK stake to a Russian oligarch with extensive government ties, such that they now control the majority of the company. https://www.reuters.com/article/russia-vkontakte-idUSL5N0KY3DQ20140124 https://www.reuters.com/article/russia-vkontakte-idUSL5N0KY3...
    - emptysongglass 5y ago
      I repeat, for clarity, there are no ties between Telegram and VK.
      - boeingUH60 5y ago
        Okay, I agree with that.
    - maqp 5y ago
      You're probably right. Still, that doesn't make up for the fact Durov made his fortune with VKontakte that has the exact same toxic business model as Facebook. He began by exploiting tens of millions of VKontatke users. Now he's suddenly turned on his heels and "he's using his money for the good" by deploying tool he knows activists use, but that doesn't provide E2EE even for the small activist groups. I gave Durov a benefit of the doubt in 2013, but as I saw their E2EE stayed as a bolted-on gimmick, as opposed to forming a solid foundation, that image of a philanthropist fighting against surveillance capitalism disappeared real quick. Telegram's security model is indistinguishable from Facebook: Parent company gets everything except opt-in E2EE messages, and neither company encourages their use.
maqp 5y ago
>Telegram moved out of Russia precisely so they wouldn't be under their influence Yes, because if you're an FSB operation, the rule #1 is to operate from Russia, that way nobody suspects you. >moved to Dubai Yet journalists who went there only found an empty office https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg8mWJUM7x4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg8mWJUM7x4

lowwave 5y ago

Telegram is influenced by FB of Russian VK (something like that). And VK has KGB tights. This is from Ukraine activists point of view just FYI. So your choices is Signal or Wire. Signal sever is in US, and Wire may or may not be in US. So there you go.

emptysongglass 5y ago
The grandparent comment was already hearsay but yours really scrapes the bottom of the barrel. Durov was forced out of VK on threat of violence: there are no ties to VK.
- boeingUH60 5y ago
  No, there are ties, even though Durov was forced out. Durov sold his VK stake to a Russian oligarch with extensive government ties, such that they now control the majority of the company. https://www.reuters.com/article/russia-vkontakte-idUSL5N0KY3DQ20140124 https://www.reuters.com/article/russia-vkontakte-idUSL5N0KY3...
  - emptysongglass 5y ago
    I repeat, for clarity, there are no ties between Telegram and VK.
    - boeingUH60 5y ago
      Okay, I agree with that.
  - maqp 5y ago
    You're probably right. Still, that doesn't make up for the fact Durov made his fortune with VKontakte that has the exact same toxic business model as Facebook. He began by exploiting tens of millions of VKontatke users. Now he's suddenly turned on his heels and "he's using his money for the good" by deploying tool he knows activists use, but that doesn't provide E2EE even for the small activist groups. I gave Durov a benefit of the doubt in 2013, but as I saw their E2EE stayed as a bolted-on gimmick, as opposed to forming a solid foundation, that image of a philanthropist fighting against surveillance capitalism disappeared real quick. Telegram's security model is indistinguishable from Facebook: Parent company gets everything except opt-in E2EE messages, and neither company encourages their use.

maqp 5y ago

>Telegram moved out of Russia precisely so they wouldn't be under their influence Yes, because if you're an FSB operation, the rule #1 is to operate from Russia, that way nobody suspects you. >moved to Dubai Yet journalists who went there only found an empty office https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg8mWJUM7x4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg8mWJUM7x4