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> The fact that Great Zimbabwe is not as sophisticated as other civilizations of the same time-period Then why call it "sophisticated"? Nobody would have had a

> The fact that Great Zimbabwe is not as sophisticated as other civilizations of the same time-period Then why call it "sophisticated"? Nobody would have had a problem with the article if it just stuck to proof of civilization. Even an extremely small enclosed area like this (not even a village) is still proof of people working together, ornaments speak for themselves, etc. That is clearly a civilization. They clearly had some engineering skill. But "sophisticated" and "triumph" are pathetic exaggerations which result in the exact opposite effect than what was intended.

astine 5y ago
Because archaeologists call everything sophisticated including stone-aged hand-axes if they're comparing it to something less-sophisticated, such as the pastoralist communities that people usually think of when considering southern Africa. "Sophistication" in this context though, I think is referring to social complexity rather that strict technological sophistication. I have no comment on the use of the word "triumph", except that it's very subjective and the kind of thing I tend to ignore.
selimthegrim 5y ago
- gutitout 5y ago
  This comments makes it seem like you have an agenda outside of just stating facts.
  - selimthegrim 5y ago
    The nowadays standard understanding of IVC is that it was before the Aryan migration. I should have have added an /s to that earlier comment to make that clear.
meristohm 5y ago
Might a civilization that lasts for thousands of years and leaves minimal impact be successful? Synonyms for sophisticated: baroque, byzantine, complex, complicate, complicated, convoluted, daedal, elaborate, intricate, involute, involved, knotty, labyrinthian, labyrinthine, tangled My house is sophisticated to the point where doing any electrical rewiring is a pain. Hiding it all in the walls? Whose bright idea was that? And encasing nails in plastic for the nailgun? No thanks, I’ll use a hammer and try to spew less plastic on the ground. Et cetera.
- rory 5y ago
  I'm not sure if a joke is going over my head, but it seems that you're intentionally using the synonyms for the secondary definition of sophisticated [0], when in context the author clearly means to use the primary definition. [0]: https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/sophisticated https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/sophisticated

astine 5y ago

Because archaeologists call everything sophisticated including stone-aged hand-axes if they're comparing it to something less-sophisticated, such as the pastoralist communities that people usually think of when considering southern Africa. "Sophistication" in this context though, I think is referring to social complexity rather that strict technological sophistication. I have no comment on the use of the word "triumph", except that it's very subjective and the kind of thing I tend to ignore.

selimthegrim 5y ago

gutitout 5y ago
This comments makes it seem like you have an agenda outside of just stating facts.
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  The nowadays standard understanding of IVC is that it was before the Aryan migration. I should have have added an /s to that earlier comment to make that clear.

meristohm 5y ago

Might a civilization that lasts for thousands of years and leaves minimal impact be successful? Synonyms for sophisticated: baroque, byzantine, complex, complicate, complicated, convoluted, daedal, elaborate, intricate, involute, involved, knotty, labyrinthian, labyrinthine, tangled My house is sophisticated to the point where doing any electrical rewiring is a pain. Hiding it all in the walls? Whose bright idea was that? And encasing nails in plastic for the nailgun? No thanks, I’ll use a hammer and try to spew less plastic on the ground. Et cetera.

rory 5y ago
I'm not sure if a joke is going over my head, but it seems that you're intentionally using the synonyms for the secondary definition of sophisticated [0], when in context the author clearly means to use the primary definition. [0]: https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/sophisticated https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/sophisticated