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There are options to reduce your carbon footprint but from my experience they've been captured by sleazy companies with deceptive practices. I get a letter reg

by bko 5y ago

There are options to reduce your carbon footprint but from my experience they've been captured by sleazy companies with deceptive practices. I get a letter regularly telling me to switch my energy to green by signing up for this service where I'll pay more. But if you read the fine print you're not actually switching to green energy. You're paying more for the same energy and they're taking the money and doing something with it that is maybe green? Giving it to green companies? I don't know but it's not what I immediately thought when I saw the main claim. Same is true with solar panels where they finance it through a senior lien on your property while all the calculations of savings are based on current subsidy levels. And they're budening people with senior debt that can prevent them from selling their home in the future without paying off the senior claim or passing it on. You even see it with EV cars where the listed price includes cost savings from gas. It's just dishonest. You don't see that math on fuel efficient cars.

sokoloff 5y ago
If a homeowner has an existing mortgage (as most do), I doubt the solar companies are getting a senior lien on the property. (How could they without the consent of the existing senior lien holder?)
- bko 5y ago
  Exactly what I'm talking about. Most people don't know this and get duped into thinking the solar panels are a personal loan. > Lender Notification and Consent: Existing property lenders must receive notification and give approval for C-PACE financing in most states. This is important because C-PACE loans displace other liens. Normally, R-PACE loans don’t require consent from the mortgage lender. [0] > One of the biggest risks of the PACE program is the risk for foreclosure. The contract for the funding will act as a lien on the property. If you fall behind on your payments, you risk losing their home or business to foreclosure. Even if you're current on your mortgage payments, the PACE program moves in front of it, and they can start foreclosure proceedings. [1] [0] https://assetsamerica.com/pace-financing/ https://assetsamerica.com/pace-financing/ [1] https://www.mortgagecalculator.org/helpful-advice/pace-program.php https://www.mortgagecalculator.org/helpful-advice/pace-progr...
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    I’d certainly expect a commercial borrower (C-PACE) to understand what they’re signing much more than a residential (R-PACE) borrower.
    - bko 5y ago
      Right. So commercial (C-PACE) require the original first lien to approve. However residential (R-PACE) don't require the original first lien's approval (the bank that gave them the mortgage). So if its a bad financial decision, the mortgage borrower can't interject. And residential PACE participants can be duped into taking a second lien on their property that they won't be able to discharge and will have to pay back in full if they want to sell their homes. You can go from a healthy loan to value to being underwater with the stroke of a pen.
      - sokoloff 5y ago
        And the R-PACE lender, being the junior lienholder, is the one at risk of losing money if the homeowner defaults and the house doesn’t sell for enough, which makes the system have a built-in limit. The primary lienholder doesn’t get a chance to object because there’s no reason for them to be able to object. Their economic position is not hindered by a junior loan and as a homeowner, I’d be incredibly annoyed if my mortgage holder had a right to butt in to and potentially block any secondary financing I wanted to do. C-PACE requires approval because the current senior lienholder has to agree to give up their senior position.
        bko 5y ago
        The primary lien holder absolutely has a right object (practically not legally). Because its a lien senior to the original lien. So in case of a foreclosure, the PACE loans would be repaid first. No other loan can trump seniority of the primary lien. PACE is an exception by law For instance, if someone buys a home for 100k putting down 20k (standard 20% in the US). Then the owner takes out a PACE loan for 20k, the loan to value for the bank is now 100% (as opposed to original 80%). In case of foreclosure, the 20k PACE is paid down first or becomes the obligation of the buyer. And these panel depreciate, so its unlikely the panels are worth 20k after a few years. So in case its liquidated for 70k, the PACE gets paid off 20k, and the bank gets 50k. Without the loan, the bank would get their back 70k.

by bko 5y ago

sokoloff 5y ago

If a homeowner has an existing mortgage (as most do), I doubt the solar companies are getting a senior lien on the property. (How could they without the consent of the existing senior lien holder?)

bko 5y ago
Exactly what I'm talking about. Most people don't know this and get duped into thinking the solar panels are a personal loan. > Lender Notification and Consent: Existing property lenders must receive notification and give approval for C-PACE financing in most states. This is important because C-PACE loans displace other liens. Normally, R-PACE loans don’t require consent from the mortgage lender. [0] > One of the biggest risks of the PACE program is the risk for foreclosure. The contract for the funding will act as a lien on the property. If you fall behind on your payments, you risk losing their home or business to foreclosure. Even if you're current on your mortgage payments, the PACE program moves in front of it, and they can start foreclosure proceedings. [1] [0] https://assetsamerica.com/pace-financing/ https://assetsamerica.com/pace-financing/ [1] https://www.mortgagecalculator.org/helpful-advice/pace-program.php https://www.mortgagecalculator.org/helpful-advice/pace-progr...
- sokoloff 5y ago
  I’d certainly expect a commercial borrower (C-PACE) to understand what they’re signing much more than a residential (R-PACE) borrower.
  - bko 5y ago
    Right. So commercial (C-PACE) require the original first lien to approve. However residential (R-PACE) don't require the original first lien's approval (the bank that gave them the mortgage). So if its a bad financial decision, the mortgage borrower can't interject. And residential PACE participants can be duped into taking a second lien on their property that they won't be able to discharge and will have to pay back in full if they want to sell their homes. You can go from a healthy loan to value to being underwater with the stroke of a pen.
    - sokoloff 5y ago
      And the R-PACE lender, being the junior lienholder, is the one at risk of losing money if the homeowner defaults and the house doesn’t sell for enough, which makes the system have a built-in limit. The primary lienholder doesn’t get a chance to object because there’s no reason for them to be able to object. Their economic position is not hindered by a junior loan and as a homeowner, I’d be incredibly annoyed if my mortgage holder had a right to butt in to and potentially block any secondary financing I wanted to do. C-PACE requires approval because the current senior lienholder has to agree to give up their senior position.
      - bko 5y ago
        The primary lien holder absolutely has a right object (practically not legally). Because its a lien senior to the original lien. So in case of a foreclosure, the PACE loans would be repaid first. No other loan can trump seniority of the primary lien. PACE is an exception by law For instance, if someone buys a home for 100k putting down 20k (standard 20% in the US). Then the owner takes out a PACE loan for 20k, the loan to value for the bank is now 100% (as opposed to original 80%). In case of foreclosure, the 20k PACE is paid down first or becomes the obligation of the buyer. And these panel depreciate, so its unlikely the panels are worth 20k after a few years. So in case its liquidated for 70k, the PACE gets paid off 20k, and the bank gets 50k. Without the loan, the bank would get their back 70k.